Electric Guitarists... hither

allllec said:
Okay 12 notes in the musical spectrum. those that are listed. so what is Bb for example? is it not a note or what? and if A# = Bb then when do you say one and not the other?


lol sorry im not trying to make this difficult i just think it would make my life easier if i atleast understood notes and could understand where they are on the neck :)
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as said before mate, Bb and A# are the same thing. just re-read the scale and change the sharp for flats.
 
allllec said:
Okay 12 notes in the musical spectrum. those that are listed. so what is Bb for example? is it not a note or what? and if A# = Bb then when do you say one and not the other?
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I believe when you say one rather than the other, it is relevent to what context you are using in relation to a scale or key.

Did you know that the difference bewteen the major and minor scale is only three notes, despite sounding totally different? Each scale has eight notes, but the third note, sixth note and seventh note of the scale is dropped by a semitone (Thats one fret to a guitarist). As such, it is possible to consider the major and minor scales as the following:

Major scale: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Minor scale: 1 2 3b 4 5 6b 7b 8

Getting more technical than I would want to here... the major scale is sometimes refered to as the ionian, whilst the minor is refered to as the aeolian. There are others with fancy names such as the Lydian, which looks like this in comparison to the major scale:

Lydian scale: 1 2 3 4# 5 6 7 8

Notice how the 4th note of the scale is sharp (a semitone or fret higher) compared to the major scale. It is therefore logical to call the note sharp in this situation.

As such, I hope that explains why sharps and flats are called such in different situations, despite being the same note.

However, as far as you should be concerned, they are exactly the same thing. Thats how I consider them anyway. Its just the context of when you are using them, which to be honest is not something worth thinking about.
 
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allllec said:
Okay 12 notes in the musical spectrum. those that are listed. so what is Bb for example? is it not a note or what? and if A# = Bb then when do you say one and not the other?
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Notes such as A#/Bb, C#/Db, D#/Eb, F#/Gb, G#/Ab, notes that 'sound' the same or are at the same fret practically speaking are known as 'Enharmonic' notes.

The way you know how to use which one is as follows, in most diatonic (major/minor 8 notes - including root note scales) you never write the same note twice, even if one of the notes is # or b.

For example, the scale F Major has the following notes: F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F.

Now the only chromatic note there (Bb) 'sounds' the same as A#. however you would not spell the scale: F-G-A-A#-C-D-E-F, as now you have an A note doubled, even though the doubled note is#, this can make things confusing when referring to the scale in terms of degrees (basically numbering each note 1 through 8), and especially difficult when using the scale to work out how chords are built. Think of writing out the scales like you would the alphabet, being that if you're playing an 8 note diatonic major/minor (7 different notes) scale you'll never miss out an note/double a note.

Try looking at the following Major scales and see how they should be spelt to follow the alphabet idea:

Bb-C-D-D#-F-G-A-Bb?
Eb-F-G-A-A#-C-D-Eb?
Ab-A#-C-C#-D#-F-G?

This rule goes out of the window when you look at pentatonic scales which only have 5 notes, as obviously you have to miss some notes out, that's what gives the scale it's sound, the harmonic minor scale (which features 7 different notes) also 'misses' out a note, due to a larger interval between the 6th and 7th degrees.
 
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allllec said:
Improvising? i hear everyone go on about it ... but i have no idea where to even begin .. how do you "learn" to improvise.. i really don't understand how someone can just pick up a guitar and pull some long winded amazing thing out of thin air
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i got a book a while ago called the guitar grimoire (i have the scales one but there is an improvisation one) would recomend it but you might want an easier book to understand if you have only been playing for a few months. it has loads of theory and scales in it, and if you just learn scales and where they fit in i.e. what key to play

(learn the circle of fifths) http://www.maxhammondphotos.org.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/circle-of-fifths.gif

at the start of sheet music it always has an amount of flats or sharps, and if you look at the circle you can see which key to play in (this is theory btw :))

if you learn scales, what key to play in, and are a competent player, improvising is within your grasp

after this comes learning techniques like tapping (easy), sweeping (difficult) and my favourite legato :)

http://www.guitargrimoire.com/

i just ordered the second 2 books :) hope they are as good as the first
 
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A quick note about improvising:

Find a friend who plays, you may play the same thing over and over for hours until it almost as if you weren't improvising I'd start by learning this:

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?scch=E&scchnam=Pentatonic+Minor&get2=Get

Take it section by section using the pattern selector option, learn the individual patterns then learn to link them, it will take time but once you know a couple of patterns by heart try and play it over this:

Winter Blues in E from here:

http://www.dolphinstreet.com/backing_tracks

It will be trial and error until you learn to recognise and pre-empt the sound of each note.

Once you know the patterns and their relation to each other you only need to know the key of a track (blues based) to be able to play along with anything, the pattern stays the same but starts in different places along the neck.

You can start off learning the patterns in any key you like, choose a track you like the sound of and work from there.

I know people will say to ignore improvisation but nothing makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up like a good lick that you just pulled off (and any other inuendo you care to use) :cool:

It takes a long time and there are sometimes days when you wonder why you bother, then you realise you've just played something cool that you couldn't do about a week ago, it's a constant learning process and very few guitarist ever say that they are good :)
 
Thank you everybody.. all interesting reads. when i get some time later i will sit down the guitar and start messin about and learning some of that stuff. your all fantastic <3 cheers.


ta

alec
 
Andelusion said:
This rule goes out of the window when you look at pentatonic scales which only have 5 notes, as obviously you have to miss some notes out, that's what gives the scale it's sound, the harmonic minor scale (which features 7 different notes) also 'misses' out a note, due to a larger interval between the 6th and 7th degrees.
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Even the "cant have 2 of the "same" notes next to each other" part of the rule?
 
seems everyone has given really solid advice for you.

i would recomend a book that just gives a consolidated overview of the above info.

i got bought it years ago however every now and then i refer to it when i'm trying something new.

its called 'the new complete guitarist' and is avisual apporach, ie it shows actually pictures, scores and tabulature which allow you to make the connection between the real world, music notation and tab (which is commonly found on the net and how another poster showed octvaes for you.)

ISBN = 1-4053-0189-9

it will just give a helping hand whilst to learn it also has help with equipment, restringing etc.

for your improvisation some theory is required to understand what notes go best with what.

if you have any music software like cubasis etc you can loop a chord to play over. you'll find that certain shapes and guitar licks (a series of notes put together) are transferable all over the guitar whether your playing in the key of G major or F.

learn the pentatonic scale its 5 notes (hence pent) aslong as you play that scale at the right point over a chord you can play around with it so much.

e---------------------------------5---8
b---------------------------5---8------
g---------------------5---7------------
d---------------5---7------------------
a--------5---7-------------------------
E--5---8-------------------------------

That is the pentatonic scale in A but same pattern (intervals between the notes) when mapped out on the guitar could be transferred all over the fret board. Try playing this scale over some one playing the chord of F# and every note will go.

i could go on and talk about realtive major and minors but there is no point, get a book simlar to the one i've suggested and the advice given in this thread with begin to stitch together.

good luck and you can always PM/ email me if you need any advice!

Josh
 
*edit*

Josh! didnt see your post.. must have missed the email. fantastic buddy. i may buy that book (which is rare for me IVE NEVER brought a book in my entie life!) thanks a lot bud. and thanks to everyone else aswell!


While i've got all your attention..

i decided in all my wizdom to put some big strings on and use a C tuning..

however..

DSC00273%20%28Small%29.JPG

DSC00274%20%28Small%29.JPG


anything i can do to stop my trem from doing this? its kinda worrying lol!
 
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When you are putting on heavier strings, there will be more force on the bridge pulling towards the headstock, which is resulting in your bridge 'hovering'.

To set it correctly, you need to add more springs, or stronger springs, to you tremelo unit. Open the back of your guitar up and you will see that the tremelo is help in place by a number of springs. You need more force to pull the bridge towards the body of the guitar, which happens when you change the springs accordingly. Of course, if you add too many springs, your tremelo will cease to work properly as it will require a great deal of force to use it.
 
When you say big strings, what gauge? If you're talking 12s/13s and you're in C your bridge shouldn't be hovering.

EDIT: Actually, if you're using 13s then that could well happen.
 
Nitefly said:
When you are putting on heavier strings, there will be more force on the bridge pulling towards the headstock, which is resulting in your bridge 'hovering'.

To set it correctly, you need to add more springs, or stronger springs, to you tremelo unit. Open the back of your guitar up and you will see that the tremelo is help in place by a number of springs. You need more force to pull the bridge towards the body of the guitar, which happens when you change the springs accordingly. Of course, if you add too many springs, your tremelo will cease to work properly as it will require a great deal of force to use it.
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Yah know he could just tighten the screw on the back to create more tension. Ive gone up to 13s before and never had to 'buy more springs'

Regardless, for a newer player i would say 12s are a very bad idea because it will be virtually impossible to practice bends/wide vibrato. Start out on 10s, then when you feel comfortable you can consider dropping it (9s for lead play) or raising it (11s for rhythm). Personally i use 9 hybrids to keep the high end nice and light but keeping a bit of chunkiness in the low end.

edit: And drop B tuning?!? As in B-Gb-B-E-Ab-Db? detuning by one and a half steps really shouldn't be putting that much tension on the bridge
 
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Clinkz said:
Yah know he could just tighten the screw on the back to create more tension. Ive gone up to 13s before and never had to 'buy more springs'

Regardless, for a newer player i would say 12s are a very bad idea because it will be virtually impossible to practice bends/wide vibrato. Start out on 10s, then when you feel comfortable you can consider dropping it (9s for lead play) or raising it (11s for rhythm). Personally i use 9 hybrids to keep the high end nice and light but keeping a bit of chunkiness in the low end.

edit: And drop B tuning?!? As in B-Gb-B-E-Ab-Db? detuning by one and a half steps really shouldn't be putting that much tension on the bridge
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Thing is mate.

This is gonna be blasphemous i know. but im not long enjoying regular playing. infact if somone offerd me a fair price for the amp and guitar i'd sell it :( I have heard some very simple but cool sounding riffs and im trying to get my picking fast enough to be able to do some metal style "machine gunning" but i dont know. im just really put of with my guitar nowerdays. i know it takes time but im litteraly making no progress. like NONE at all.. i honestly thing ive pushed my carppy fingers has hard as they will go and i just cant get any better :(

mind you my bridge is really flexible so i guess whats why


so no way to do anything about it?


thanks for replies

ta

alec
 
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