Electric scooters and the law

Bug One said:
I've got a few electric scooters. From experience, 250w isn't enough for an adult. Perhaps it's better on an ebike.
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Definitely, both my bikes are within the law and I can get upbank easily with a bit of light pedaling, everywhere else I can use the throttle.
My throttles are 10 years old so I can use them under Grandfather laws, throttles are now illegal.
 
Dunno what make/power the Beryl hire ones are but they were more than sufficient for zipping around Bournemouth when we tried them out. Limited to 12.5 mph which was plenty.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
Just because they are defined as a motorcycle in U.K. law doesn’t make them equivalent to a motorbike.

It’s obvious they are a different class of vehicle and so single person would agree.

You trying to use U.K. law to equivocate the two to make an emotive ‘they’ll be riding motorbikes on cycle paths’ argument is just an utter nonsense. :rolleyes:
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It's nonsense to pretend that a motorbike isn't a motorbike because the motor is electric rather than internal combustion. The type of motor doesn't matter in the context of whether or not it's safe enough to have motorbikes used in pedestrian areas (it isn't). In one important way an electric motorbike is more dangerous in pedestrian areas than an ICE motorbike - an electric motorbike is much quieter, so pedestrians who can hear will have less warning and less time to try to dodge. Although I would argue that pedestrians on a pedestrian area shouldn't have to routinely dodge vehicles using a pedestrian area because I would argue that vehicles shouldn't be allowed on pedestrian areas with the sole exception of wheelchairs and mobility scooters limited to a brisk walking speed. Even those are somewhat dangerous for pedestrian areas, but I think they warrant an exemption.

I saw someone riding an electric motorbike along the pavement outside my workplace just last night. It happens already and it's becoming more common. This particular one wasn't even a scooter type of motorbike. It was a fully fledged motorbike.

I didn't mention riding motorbikes on cycle paths. I referred to riding motorbikes on pedestrian areas. Cycle paths are not pedestrian areas. You're not even reading what you're replying to.
 
You can call a scooter a motorbike as much as you want, that doesn’t make it a motorbike.

No one sensible suggests they should be treated any differently to a normal cyclist, e.g. on roads and cycle paths. You aren’t allowed to ride a bike on a pavement for good reason, I don’t see why scooters should be any different.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
You can call a scooter a motorbike as much as you want, that doesn’t make it a motorbike.

No one sensible suggests they should be treated any differently to a normal cyclist, e.g. on roads and cycle paths. You aren’t allowed to ride a bike on a pavement for good reason, I don’t see why scooters should be any different.
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But riding them on a pavement is exactly what is being widely suggested. And what is being done. Often and increasingly often.

A motorised bicycle (which absolutely is a motorbike, obviously) is not the same thing as a human-powered bicycle. The fact that the motor is electric rather than ICE doesn't make a significant difference in terms of safety, neither for the rider nor for whoever they ride into.
 
Angilion said:
But riding them on a pavement is exactly what is being widely suggested. And what is being done. Often and increasingly often.

A motorised bicycle (which absolutely is a motorbike, obviously) is not the same thing as a human-powered bicycle. The fact that the motor is electric rather than ICE doesn't make a significant difference in terms of safety, neither for the rider nor for whoever they ride into.
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To clarify, is your point:
You don't like cyclists
The lack of safe segregated cycling infrastructure
The electric assistance that is less powerful/slower then a reasonably fit human


People cycling on pavements is a symptom, not the problem.
 
Every situation / road is different. My preference is cycle lane, pavement, road. However it entirely depends on time of day, traffic, pedestrians.

If it's an empty quiet road, I'd be on the road going a bit faster. If it's a busy main road with very few pedestrians I'd be on the pavement going slow and careful.

One of escooters biggest problems is the cycle lane network is terrible in the UK. We went on holiday to Holland a couple of years ago. Was incredible over there on a scooter - every road had a cycle path completely away from the road / pedestrians. There were even underpasses in the middle of nowhere to ensure you could continue efficiently.
 
Bug One said:
One of escooters biggest problems is the cycle lane network is terrible in the UK.
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This looks perfection, cycle lanes either side of the road for 1.5 miles to get me to the hospital & back.
What I can tell you is that you need a full suspension MTB to ride on it because at every tree there is a bump in it and electric scooters don't stand a chance.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.0...eWDaEgZfhs6dWBnZXO1Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

We also have ill thought out 'cycle lanes', @Malevolence will know this one :)
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9...lCiQVqdQd5WaG-Vph1Ww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

Just before that I am allowed to ride on the pavement in front of those houses -
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9...X2j5thx6gdEEE4LTSrnQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.9...lQYbLd6eTtaL2-7hbAYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
 
Trifid said:
To clarify, is your point:
You don't like cyclists
The lack of safe segregated cycling infrastructure
The electric assistance that is less powerful/slower then a reasonably fit human
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No.

People cycling on pavements is a symptom, not the problem.
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People riding motorised bikes on pavements is a problem. Especially for the people killed by them.
 
Angilion said:
No.



People riding motorised bikes on pavements is a problem. Especially for the people killed by them.
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Incorrect and shows you haven't thought this through. People cycle on pavements because they don't feel safe on the roads - this is the problem. Main through roads are poorly thought out for cycling and don't have appropriate cycling infrastructure. Where cycling infrastructure has been put in it is more often then not poorly thought out at best, or more dangerous at worst. Therefore pushing those who are less confident or able on bikes (the target audience of ebikes) use pavements.

Our towns and cities need to be built like Amsterdam, cycling as a mode of transport there was amazing and makes for the natural choice. I have no interest in commuting by bike in this country which is a shame as due to traffic it is slower to drive during the day around here.
 
Many do though, the issue usually isn’t space, it’s how much money and who is going to pay for it.

London has some really good cycle lanes now with dedicated lanes, traffic lights etc. but it cost hundreds of millions to install and they only cover a tiny proportion of the roads.

To install it some roads will just needed to be demolished and started again and the whole road system on some parts needed to be completely re-designed and then there was a year of chaos while they did the work.

The other huge issue is NIMBYism, everyone wants more infrastructure but as soon as you mention narrowing lanes, removing parking or even removing lanes on a road someone uses regularly, they switch stance very quickly on the topic.

When they were putting in that Dutch roundabout in Cambridge, the residents were extremely negative about it, even as far as moaning about the colour of the tarmac and they have some of the best uptake of bikes in the country outside of London.
 
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b0rn2sk8 said:
You aren’t allowed to ride a bike on a pavement for good reason, I don’t see why scooters should be any different.
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your allowed to ride on footpaths though :)

I see people riding on the pavement where I live all the time, often at night with no lights on too.

makes me think the police turn a blind eye, you shouldn't be cycling in the dark without lights in the first place never mind on the path
 
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