21% VAT
We only pay 5% reduced rate VAT on domestic electricity
i have free range electricity, i like to let those KW and W enjoy themselves
Electricity jump in useage?
- Thread starter bloodline76
- Start date
i have free range electricity, i like to let those KW and W enjoy themselves
but honestly i produce my own electricity, we have 2 small wind turbines on our roof and 2 large solor panels and 3in the garden with a large energy storage, i have so much that i sell electricity back to the company.
but its only just about 1month ago iv managed to get my money back from buying the stuff, but well worth it, i get about an extra 5k per yr
but its only just about 1month ago iv managed to get my money back from buying the stuff, but well worth it, i get about an extra 5k per yr
Caporegime
- Joined
- 11 Mar 2005
- Posts
- 32,242
- Location
- Leafy Cheshire
Extra 5k per yer in cash from your home energy productions after you've take your usage out of it, that seems like far too much power to be generated from home, i'm shocked you make this much money from it particually since the rate you sell it back can't be that much.
Not sure about wind, but I know that in the last 6 months solar panels have gone up to around 120% efficieny from just 50-60% due to advancing technologies, I tried to sell the idea onto my parents as they top up a big oil tank twice a year, And with current subsurdies most of its payed for.
Just what ive read/been told looking for source, apparently has happend in the last 6-7 months.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jan 2004
- Posts
- 3,489
- Location
- At Home
As he said - Solar panels have only just reached around 40% effieciency in the Lab. That is with a perfect crystal, perfect light and perfect temperatures. Realistically this will translate to no more than 25% in a panel on a house. And these are seriously expensive & only work in very limited environments.....
Here is an example of one of the most effecient cells available today.
http://sanyo.com/news/2009/05/22-1.html
I fail to see how you can say panels have now advanced to 120%. That means they are producing more electrical energy than they are receiving as light - which would be theoretically impossible (there is a limit to the amount of electrons that can be emmited compared to the amount of photons that hit the panels) and probably be on the front page of every newspaper and News report in the universe ( as it would mean the end to all our worlds energy problems)
And just to correct you again - they have never ever been anywhere near 40-60% effeciency - ever. Expensive panels are usually around 18% - and even then you have to run cables from them with losses of around 3%.
Here is an example of one of the most effecient cells available today.
http://sanyo.com/news/2009/05/22-1.html
I fail to see how you can say panels have now advanced to 120%. That means they are producing more electrical energy than they are receiving as light - which would be theoretically impossible (there is a limit to the amount of electrons that can be emmited compared to the amount of photons that hit the panels) and probably be on the front page of every newspaper and News report in the universe ( as it would mean the end to all our worlds energy problems)
And just to correct you again - they have never ever been anywhere near 40-60% effeciency - ever. Expensive panels are usually around 18% - and even then you have to run cables from them with losses of around 3%.
Last edited:
Found out without subsidies its around 7k for the system, with two panels. System produces heat in winter and in cloudy skies during summer, gas boilers not needed to run a minimum of two showers, bath, washing machine, dishwasher and other general use.
Still trying to find the 120% effieciency bit. Although im pretty sure it meantioned that it wasnt the cells themselves but the whole system allowing the system that was already in place to be more efficient.
So how can something be 120% efficient?
The sun produced 1Kwh of energy, and the solar cell gives me 1.2KwH?
but honestly i produce my own electricity, we have 2 small wind turbines on our roof and 2 large solor panels and 3in the garden with a large energy storage, i have so much that i sell electricity back to the company.
but its only just about 1month ago iv managed to get my money back from buying the stuff, but well worth it, i get about an extra 5k per yr
Rubbish. Even "green" and environmental websites state that you should do wind/solar electicity production for environmental purposes only, not savings as with the original costs, maintenance and lifespan, the average household would only save in electricity costs what the total lifespan ownership of solar/wind costs. Net result, no savings.
It's only salesmen who still try and claim that you will save money.
The area efficiency, electricity generated per unit area as a fraction of the incident sun light, is usually the least important characteristic as solar installations are not usually space constrained. Far more important is the electricity generated per CAPEX pound. How much do you have to spend to generate a 1kW per day for example.
Whether it takes 1, 2 or 3 square meters isn't nearly as important as whether it cost £1000, £2000 or £3000.
People get far too excited about area efficiency increasing from 20% to 30%, just a 50% improvement when the really important metric is the cost falling from $5 per watt to $1 per watt, a 500% improvement.
Another mug falls for the salesman speil. Facts:
1.A solar system can be done for around £2k to £3k. £7k is just the company making an extra £4k profit from you.
2. Even at £2k to £3k, you will only save that money over the lifespan of the system (25 years from memory). At a cost of £7k you will never save that money.
3. That system will not supply all that hot water, all year round without boilers.
EDIT: And before people start accusingme of making it up, here are the sauces. Trust me, I have spent a lot of time assessing alternative energy production.
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-water-heating
States:
Therefore payback time for a £5k system in their quote is more than 50 years.
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...rs-to-pay-back-installation-costs-917202.html
http://www.ecofreak.co.uk/practical-solar-power.html
Even an bloody Eco hippy site states the following:
And in fact, there are hundreds of things you can spend less money on to reduce your energy bills which have a payback in monetary terms of just one year. See here:
http://www.ecofreak.co.uk/cheaper-utility-bills.html
Make sure you have done all of them before you even think about solar/wind.
Bonus green points to you though if you are doing this for the environment and not to save money. If you expect to save money you are going to be bitterly disappointed.
Last edited:
That situation is likely to change with the new premium rate feed in tariffs recently announced. Get paid a high rate per unit you generate - even if you use it yourself!
Well for solar panel energy to become a zero overall lifespan cost you need the costs to either drop to between a half or a quarter of what they are now eg £625 to £2500 or the cost of gas/electric to increase by 2 to 4 times. My electric has just dropped by 20% at home.
Even with those new feed in tariffs Jeremy Leggett, head of Solar Century is quoted as saying:
That means with either a combination of better/cheaper solar technology and/or gas/electric prices increases, a system might reach cost parity by 2013. That doesn't mean a system bought today will.
I am waiting until a saving can be made but in the meantime doing everything else like low engery light bulbs, insulation etc.
Facts:
1.A solar system can be done for around £2k to £3k. £7k is just the company making an extra £4k profit from you.
2. Even at £2k to £3k, you will only save that money over the lifespan of the system (25 years from memory). At a cost of £7k you will never save that money.
3. That system will not supply all that hot water, all year round without boilers.
EDIT: And before people start accusingme of making it up, here are the sauces. Trust me, I have spent a lot of time assessing alternative energy production.
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-water-heating
States:
Therefore payback time for a £5k system in their quote is more than 50 years.
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...rs-to-pay-back-installation-costs-917202.html
http://www.ecofreak.co.uk/practical-solar-power.html
Even an bloody Eco hippy site states the following:
And in fact, there are hundreds of things you can spend less money on to reduce your energy bills which have a payback in monetary terms of just one year. See here:
http://www.ecofreak.co.uk/cheaper-utility-bills.html
Make sure you have done all of them before you even think about solar/wind.
Bonus green points to you though if you are doing this for the environment and not to save money. If you expect to save money you are going to be bitterly disappointed.
Thanks for clearing this up, a lot of the spiel was given to me when i went for an interview actually selling solar equipment, a lesson learnt.
4870x2?