EMA

[neil3k]

I think there's a few massively more important examples of "unjustifiable waste of money" than EMA, like the war.

<Basil Fawlty>
Do not talk about the war </>

EMA is a waste of money IMO. I got £80 a term back in my day not this £20 a week and bonuses for staying on. I have a distinct feeling this money could be invested better elsewhere.

 

[fini]

So, ulfhedjinn, your argument is that because money is wasted elsewhere it is OK to waste tax money everywhere?

Presumably, using your logic, you'd be in support of my 'DMA' Drinking Maintenance Allowance (£30 a week for everyone that visits the pub more than once a week)?

 

[Darkwave]

So, ulfhedjinn, your argument is that because money is wasted elsewhere it is OK to waste tax money everywhere?

That wasn't my argument at all. What I'm saying is that people are getting their knickers in a twist when there are much more important issues to worry about that are along the same lines but massively worse.

Of course, the military budget doesn't mean someone's getting something you don't. That's just jealousy.

 

[sbi5ar]

<Basil Fawlty>
Do not talk about that war

Sorry

<Basil Fawlty>
I got £80 a term back in my day not this £20 a week and bonuses for staying on.

The whole bonus aspect really ****** me off. They get paid each week to go to school...... and then get a bonus for 100% attendance (or some thing in that region) ******** to the bonus, they get paid to go in the first place!

 

[Darkwave]

The whole bonus aspect really ****** me off. They get paid each week to go to school...... and then get a bonus for 100% attendance (or some thing in that region) ******** to the bonus, they get paid to go in the first place!

I'm sure the education people would love to hear your suggestions for keeping students in school/college if they're so much better and cost effective than EMA.

P.S. I'm not a student, just thought I'd clarify before someone tried to throw it in my face.

 

[hargi]

dont get me wrong its not the people getting EMA's that im unhappy with, if the government are giving you free money then you'd be daft not to take it. Its the government that were blaming.
An ideal situation would be for the EMA payment to go in to a big pot and get rid of top up fee's, or be used to help your education for your school/college to buy books/equipment. Not just to be given to you for spending money.

Damien

When my girlfriend was in school she had EMA, but i feel hers was justified. She was living with her mum who was a single parent to too and only on < 20k a year so the mrs probably needed it.

obviously there are some cases where the money is needed/spent wisely

 

[Darkwave]

An ideal situation would be for the EMA payment to go in to a big pot and get rid of top up fee's, or be used to help your education for your school/college to buy books/equipment. Not just to be given to you for spending money.

Unfortunately though that doesn't stop people dropping out of higher education, which is why EMA exists.

Like I said to sbi5ar: If you can think of a better, more cost-effective way to keep students studying instead of the nation becoming gradually more under-skilled then I'm sure the people in charge would love to hear it.

 

[fini]

People get disability benefits and I don't - that does not bother me.

Children get free transport in London and that does not bother me.

This is because both can be directly linked with an appreciable improvement in the state of the nation.

EMA does nothing except was money that could otherwise be diverted elsewhere (see my example in my post above). That is why people have a problem with EMA.

You seem to be saying that, because there are other more major issues in the world people should not argue against EMA, but where does that logic lead us? Should people not go to vote at local elections because, come on, they're not really that important. Should people not bother to turn up to work because 'OMG Iran has nukes'?

 

[Darkwave]

This is because both can be directly linked with an appreciable improvement in the state of the nation.

EMA does nothing except was money that could otherwise be diverted elsewhere (see my example in my post above). That is why people have a problem with EMA.

How is keeping people in higher education "doing nothing for the nation"?

Do you want Britain to get dumber and/or more unskilled and fall behind the rest of the western world?

 

[p4radox]

That wasn't my argument at all. What I'm saying is that people are getting their knickers in a twist when there are much more important issues to worry about that are along the same lines but massively worse.

Of course, the military budget doesn't mean someone's getting something you don't. That's just jealousy.

Look, EMA is a waste of money. Why should we not be concerned about a waste of money?

I'll quote myself from another thread:

EMA, is a weekly payment of £10, £20 or £30 a week depending on household income. The money is intended to help with the day-to-day costs for those who stay on at school or college. I however dislike the entire system and its implementation for several reasons:

-The free money on offer is available to those from lower income backgrounds:

to help with the day-to-day costs when you stay on at school or college – such as travel, books and equipment for your course

Yet those who receive it are told that:

Once the money is in your bank account, it's up to you how you spend it.

How is that in any way to do with education? The government is providing money to people for their education, yet they are allowed to spend it on whatever they please.

-Why should the taxpayer pay for students' gifts to themselves, which are purchased with EMA?

-So it's not necessarily for educational purposes. It must be an incentive for people from lower income families to carry on into further education then. What need is there for this? If people only carry on into post-16 education because of £30 a week then they shouldn't be in post-16 education, and in all probability are not putting their all into their work, and wasting their teachers' time and the college/school's resources.

-The system is horrendously abused. I know of many people who claim EMA, yet are actually not entitled to it and have fiddled the system in order to get their hands on the cash. I also know of people who claim it, who in all honesty don't deserve it.

-Students on EMA are less likely to try and get a job to earn their money.


Don't get me wrong, I agree with the principle of enabling those from lower income families to continue their education, if they would normally be unable to do so due to financial reasons. But the fact that anyone can spend it on what ever they please makes a mockery of this principle. I reckon it should be all or nothing, either everyone gets it or no-one does. Or perhaps a new system whereby those from lower income families are provided with vouchers that can be exchanged for educational resources, or passes for public transport, not for whatever they like.

I also realise that for many people EMA is a godsend, and is used for all the right reasons.

That's my contribution to this thread. I've debated this enough already.

 

[sbi5ar]

I'm sure the education people would love to hear your suggestions for keeping students in school/college if they're so much better and cost effective than EMA.

P.S. I'm not a student, just thought I'd clarify before someone tried to throw it in my face.

Make it compulsary!

I think that what the gov is proposing (might be wrong) or get rid of top up fees

 

[Darkwave]

Look, EMA is a waste of money. Why should we not be concerned about a waste of money?

Like I keep saying; do you have a better suggestion to keep people studying?

Make it compulsary!

I think that what the gov is proposing (might be wrong) or get rid of top up fees

Not sure that would work, look how many kids do crap in high school and that is compulsory.

I agree that scrapping silly fees would work, but won't people still think that's the government bleeding money?

 

[fini]

If you can think of a better, more cost-effective way to keep students studying instead of the nation becoming gradually more under-skilled then I'm sure the people in charge would love to hear it.

Has there been a single study which has actually shown that a large percentage of people who would have otherwise not stayed in education do so because of EMA? In addition to this, should we really be fostering an environment where people are only sat in a classroom so they can buy a ps3 game at the end of the week? Should people not be in the classroom because they want to study and because they want to gain education/a job that requires higher education?

 

[FreeStream]

So your telling me if you were in Year 12/13 you wouldn't get it if you could?

Yea right....

I think of it as, government will take a lot of my cash in later life, Im just getting some back

Oh and btw I attend all my lessons and got 4 As at AS

And mines already been paid

 

[stickroad]

I'm sure the education people would love to hear your suggestions for keeping students in school/college if they're so much better and cost effective than EMA.

I go to college myself and do get EMA £20, its not a lot but does help me out. I also have a job which i have been working their for around 2 years now (started when i was around 15). Since it is only 1 day a week now and they cant offer me any more hours i will be looking to get another job, as well as keeping my current job. (Since i actually like working where i am). It certainly helps me out though.

If the goverment didnt provide any EMA to college students that would not stop me from going to college, i want to learn and get a good job and enjoy myself. So your comment is for certain individuals and does not represent the student population.

Though hopefully it would stop the idiots that just go their for the money.

 

[pitchfork]

A better way would be to pay EMA in book tokens

What about bus passes then?

Anyways, no one told me about it if it was about so I never got it. Even though I could have (parents weren't earning a lot, some weeks we couldn't afford meat)

 

[Damien.]

Like I keep saying; do you have a better suggestion to keep people studying?

I think the new law of slapping a fine on the parent is a good idea. Its there responsability as a parent to keep there child studying etc, atleast until they are classed as a legal adault.

Maybe im just old fassioned.

 

[Darkwave]

should we really be fostering an environment where people are only sat in a classroom so they can buy a ps3 game at the end of the week? Should people not be in the classroom because they want to study and because they want to gain education/a job that requires higher education?

I ask again, do you have a better suggestion to keep people studying? Because drop-outs are a big problem now.

 

[fini]

So your telling me if you were in Year 12/13 you wouldn't get it if you could?

As has previously been stated by another poster, I don't think anyone has serious issues with the students themselves for taking it - nobody turns down free money. The issue is with the government for providing said money in the first place.

 

[p4radox]

Like I keep saying; do you have a better suggestion to keep people studying?

Yeah: don't keep people studying. Half of 'em do useless A levels, leading to useless degrees, which hardly generates a skilled workforce.

If people need bribery to stay in education, they shouldn't be there. They should be doing something useful like an apprenticeship or getting a job.