Employers Genius solution to staff retention issues.

[plasmahal]

OK, here goes.

Yesterday we were split into small groups at work and at short notice told we had a presentation by our senior on site manager.

When we arrived, there also someone from HR on the phone.

We were given a one slide presentation where it stated that out employer was having major issues with staff retention and recruiting replacements.

So there genius solution is for then to 'unilaterally' change the conditions of our contracts of employment so we no longer need to give four weeks notice but must give twelve weeks notice!!!!!!!!!!

Our manger kept saying it benefits everyone but clearly only benefits the company's incompetence.

So rather than address the retention issues they plan to shackle us down, with no incentives to a completed one sided change of contract that makes us extremely inflexible in the job market.

I have now come home to a letter referring the 'MEETING' we had yesterday telling me to sign the contract amendment and return it by 22nd february.

no letter formally explaining the proposed changes and no consultation period.

I'm looking at ACAS website and getting myself educated to my rights by we are mostly all in stunned disbelief at the moment.

 

[peterwalkley]

In practise if you want to leave in less than the notice period there is not a lot an employer can do. They can threaten legal action etc, but it would not be worth the bother and cost of carrying it out.

 

[plasmahal]

In practise if you want to leave in less than the notice period there is not a lot an employer can do. They can threaten legal action etc, but it would not be worth the bother and cost of carrying it out.

That is an understandable assumption but by no means a guarantee that they won't.

And how does that look to a prospective employer?

 

[estebanrey]

Seems they can provided they give you your current notice as notice to the change, but refusing to accept the new terms and them refusing to offer you he same contract could mean they are lliable for unfair dismissal....

My employers want to change my contract - can they do this?
Your contract can be changed by mutual agreement between you and your employer. Where you don't agree to a change, it is possible your employers may terminate your original contract, with proper notice and by following any relevant procedures. They may then offer you a new contract including the revised terms. There will be no breach of contract as a result of taking this action. If you accept the new contract your continuity of employment is preserved.

Your employers must give you the notice specified (or implied) in your contract, or the minimum statutory notice period, whichever is the longer.

Under the law the termination will be regarded as a dismissal and providing you are eligible you may claim unfair dismissal before an employment tribunal. This is true whether you refuse to accept the new contract and leave, or are dismissed under the old contract and re-engaged?

ACAS

 

[d_brennen]

If you want to leave and have another job lined up, **** on your managers desk

 

[Ace Modder]

If you refuse to sign the new contract there is nothing they can do to force you to sign it.

Thus your 4 week notice period remains at 4 weeks, any threat of not further employment = unfair dismissal.

 

[mollymoo]

I read somewhere that you have to actually object in writing to the new contract, just ignoring it implies acceptance, I could be wrong though as contract law is a dark art.

 

[shine]

Have a read of the page below:

https://www.gov.uk/your-employment-contract-how-it-can-be-changed/getting-agreement

They can't force you to do anything without your agreement.

 

[Scrutinize]

Employment law is challenging at the best of times.

If you refuse to sign it you need to put this in writing. But they can serve a legal notice on you and force the change through.

I doubt it will do much for retention neither will it for recruitment.

Does work both ways though as this helps for redundancy packages etc. Normally why employers keep this amount of notice for management and upwards. I know plenty of employers that only have 3-6months for directors only. Gets very expensive for terminations/redundancies.

Also keeping employees around for this length of time can be hugely disruptive once they serve notice. Very few will work flat out if putting any effort at all during notice/hand over. Pay in lieu of notice goes up too.

 

[mattyg]

Have a read of the page below:

https://www.gov.uk/your-employment-contract-how-it-can-be-changed/getting-agreement

They can't force you to do anything without your agreement.

However if Pretty much everyone says ok then they have other options open to them.

 

[Rids]

I wouldn't agree to moving to a 12 week notice period without a significant salary bump. Tell them to stick it.

 

[plasmahal]

The information here is very insightful:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=816

While walking out or lining myself up for gross misconduct may seem like an option to some posters, it doesn't look good for me with future employers.

We are putting out collective thoughts and objections together and will then reply in writing to our employer and raise an official grievance and objection to the unilateral change in the contracts.

 

[plasmahal]

I wouldn't agree to moving to a 12 week notice period without a significant salary bump. Tell them to stick it.

I like a few others had plans to move on this year, so I won't be agreeing to these changes.

We will try and force their hand into a consultation but clearly the decision has already been made as the letter must have been in the post while we had the so called meeting.

 

[Scrutinize]

The information here is very insightful:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=816

While walking out or lining myself up for gross misconduct may seem like an option to some posters, it doesn't look good for me with future employers.

We are putting out collective thoughts and objections together and will then reply in writing to our employer and raise an official grievance and objection to the unilateral change in the contracts.

Unless you are planning to leave, this change actually benefits you though. Even if you do serve notice you would be able to do a deal or worse case enjoy 3 months of being laid back. They can't easily dismiss you in a notice period when you serve it and they have to be careful not to actively discriminate or harass you.

Only time this doesn't benefit you is if you are a weekly paid or transient work force. If you are weekly paid its pretty much unenforceable.

 

[Rroff]

However if Pretty much everyone says ok then they have other options open to them.

It can narrow options considerably if everyone else agrees to it the only real option from here to actually get something changed is a collective grievance.

You can go down the route of not accepting the change which might ultimately lead to a case for unfair dismissal but its unlikely to be of benefit unless you were planning on getting out of there eventually anyhow - at some point they are likely to be able to dismiss you and then offer to take you back on a new contract (which may or may not leave them open to legal action but they may consider it worth it as a last resort).

I like a few others had plans to move on this year, so I won't be agreeing to these changes.

We will try and force their hand into a consultation but clearly the decision has already been made as the letter must have been in the post while we had the so called meeting.

If you have a few people on board consider if (formal) collective grievance action is suitable - especially if you have a union on side it puts you in a much better position to bargain from and much harder for them to isolate individual troublemakers and silence dissent.

 

[D.P.]

OK, here goes.

Yesterday we were split into small groups at work and at short notice told we had a presentation by our senior on site manager.

When we arrived, there also someone from HR on the phone.

We were given a one slide presentation where it stated that out employer was having major issues with staff retention and recruiting replacements.

So there genius solution is for then to 'unilaterally' change the conditions of our contracts of employment so we no longer need to give four weeks notice but must give twelve weeks notice!!!!!!!!!!

Our manger kept saying it benefits everyone but clearly only benefits the company's incompetence.

So rather than address the retention issues they plan to shackle us down, with no incentives to a completed one sided change of contract that makes us extremely inflexible in the job market.

I have now come home to a letter referring the 'MEETING' we had yesterday telling me to sign the contract amendment and return it by 22nd february.

no letter formally explaining the proposed changes and no consultation period.

I'm looking at ACAS website and getting myself educated to my rights by we are mostly all in stunned disbelief at the moment.

Ridiculous employer.

However, an employer can change a contract at a drop of a hat, they have to legally be able to make such changes.


The only interesting legal aspect is the notice period. That isn't so well defined in law, especially since it doesn't state what the consequences are, you get fired if you try to leave in less than 12 weeks?

 

[Bear]

I take it that it works both ways, so that they have to give you 12 weeks notice? So it means 12 weeks plus a week for every year you have worked should you ever be made redundant?

 

[Rroff]

The only interesting legal aspect is the notice period. That isn't so well defined in law, especially since it doesn't state what the consequences are, you get fired if you try to leave in less than 12 weeks?

Ultimately an enforced notice period would have to be reasonable - for someone in a upper management position for instance its quite reasonable to expect a longer period of notice - typically the full 12 weeks - for someone on minimum wage in a part time position quite hard to justify that if it came to court and the reasonable notice period would most likely be considered more in the region of 4 weeks.

EDIT: enforced should be contractual :S

 

[plasmahal]

I take it that it works both ways, so that they have to give you 12 weeks notice? So it means 12 weeks plus a week for every year you have worked should you ever be made redundant?

Nope, they can give four weeks notice but we have to give twelve weeks notice.

That's why it a unilateral change and only benefits the employer.

They still don't seem to want to tackle the real issue of staff retention.

 

[SGCWill]

They tried to do something similar to all our contracts at my previous employers. The solution was remarkably easy. Get everyone to say NO and put it in writing. Are they going to put everyone on notice for it?

Do you have a union that deals with such things?