Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

b0rn2sk8 said:
It covers a range of things, things like the £140 warm homes grant (lots of eligible people this winter on UC), green levys (should be on gas and oil IMO) and the biggest addition is the credit balances of customers from the companies that went bust due to the cap being lower than the cost of electric.

Everyone is picking up the tab for that consumer protection, they’ll be an extra £40 next year to cover the £200 loan you probably didn’t want too.
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Why should we have to pay the credit balances, let the shareholders pay! I think the standing charge increase is to keep the profits rolling in when customers start to use less fuel.
 
kinetic747 said:
Why should we have to pay the credit balances, let the shareholders pay! I think the standing charge increase is to keep the profits rolling in when customers start to use less fuel.
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That’s not how company shareholding works, the shareholders would have lost any money they put into the company. As the companies went bust, there was no money left.

The energy market is set up to socialise the risks as it’s too big and important to fail. It’s as simple as that really. You could argue that as it’s too big and important to fail then it should really be in state control but right now, it is what it is.
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
That’s not how company shareholding works, the shareholders would have lost any money they put into the company. As the companies went bust, there was no money left.

The energy market is set up to socialise the risks as it’s too big and important to fail. It’s as simple as that really. You could argue that as it’s too big and important to fail then it should really be in state control but right now, it is what it is.
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I meant the companies taking over the debt should have done just that, instead of passing it on to existing and new customers.
 
kinetic747 said:
I meant the companies taking over the debt should have done just that, instead of passing it on to existing and new customers.
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Why should they? They are already taking on loss making customers from these failed companies.

If the costs are pushed too high, they wouldn’t take on the customers and let the government deal with it instead like they have bulb, either way you are still paying for it.

The point of the cap is to protect customers from excessive charges, not drive all the suppliers out of the market because they have to supply below cost. While it worked initially, recently, not so much.
 
kinetic747 said:
I meant the companies taking over the debt should have done just that, instead of passing it on to existing and new customers.
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This

b0rn2sk8 said:
Why should they? They are already taking on loss making customers from these failed companies.

If the costs are pushed too high, they wouldn’t take on the customers and let the government deal with it instead like they have bulb, either way you are still paying for it.

The point of the cap is to protect customers from excessive charges, not drive all the suppliers out of the market because they have to supply below cost. While it worked initially, recently, not so much.
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The suppliers taking over customers from bust customers often dont have much of a say in it and it's additional debt taken on and additional resources needed to deal with X thousands of customers. If you want to get ******, get ****** with the companies that went under and were mismanaged or didnt cover themselves correctly while they were racing to the bottom to give you the cheapest of cheapest electricity and gas which was unmanagable in the first place.
 
Zenduri said:
Not really, but if the meter reader or a smart read is taken showing it's different then expect a swift correction
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If you deliberately report a wrong meter reading to over-report usage for a time period to avoid paying a high unit rate that is almost certainly fraud!
 
Heating oil now 89p/l. Hoping that's just a short term spike, because that will hurt an awful lot of people if it stays that high.
 
In 11 years i have never seen nor heard of anyone going "oh hey, this customer gave a false reading ZOMG fraaaaaaaaaaud lets report him to the popo". The usual response is, "sigh, they're trying it on, lets get them billed and we'll chase them if they own us money"

The police would laugh at you if you tried to report it as fraud
 
Zenduri said:
In 11 years i have never seen nor heard of anyone going "oh hey, this customer gave a false reading ZOMG fraaaaaaaaaaud lets report him to the popo". The usual response is, "sigh, they're trying it on, lets get them billed and we'll chase them if they own us money"
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Not sure how that doesn’t stop it being fraud. You’d be committing fraud by misrepresentation.


Fraud by false representation is when someone:

  • Dishonestly makes a false representation, and he/she
  • Knows that the representation is (or might be) untrue or misleading, and he/she
  • Does so with the intention of making a gain for himself/herself, or to cause a loss to another, or expose another to a risk of loss
The court is not concerned as to whether a gain or loss actually occurred. If the defendant intended to bring about either scenario, the charge of fraud by false representation can be upheld.
 
mrochester said:
Not sure how that doesn’t stop it being fraud.
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TBH its kinda expected for people to misrepresent their readings so no-one bothers when they find out the customer is fiddling, they just bill them for the right amount. People even photoshop photos of readings to try and adjust their usage but they get called out on it and the truth comes out.

No need to make it sound like crime of the century
 
Zenduri said:
TBH its kinda expected for people to misrepresent their readings so no-one bothers when they find out the customer is fiddling, they just bill them for the right amount. People even photoshop photos of readings to try and adjust their usage but they get called out on it and the truth comes out.

No need to make it sound like crime of the century
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I’m not saying it’s the crime of the century, I’m warning people that they are committing fraud by misrepresenting their meter readings.
 
Its OK thought guys because its all of us that will have to cover the ****** trying to game the system to save themselves a few quid. A fantastic example of the sort of thinking that has the country in such a mess. I'm alright, **** the rest of you.

b0rn2sk8 said:
The energy market is set up to socialise the risks as it’s too big and important to fail. It’s as simple as that really. You could argue that as it’s too big and important to fail then it should really be in state control but right now, it is what it is.
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It doesn't need to be in state control, it just needed some vague level of sensible rules to stop companies operating on such fine margins that are serious price fluctuation would kill them. Plenty of people had called out Bulbs business model amongst others. They were basically relying on low wholesale prices for years to come in order to make their business model not a ******* mess.

Maybe giving people 2 year fixed energy deals isn't a great idea in a market that can fluctuate wildly.

This smacks a bit of things like pensions as well. Where some people have been given deals that are far too good and they get to keep those deals and everyone else does even worse as a result as they have to subsidise them.

Companies with hundreds of thousands of regular customers should have to run a tight ship and unless they are in a very healthy position they shouldn't be able to do anything that removes money from the company and they should have to operate in a safe manner.
 
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