Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Doobedoo said:
I’m happy to pay for the cost of renewable energy but I’m not happy to pay for corporate interests to then own and profit from it. Anyone with half a brain cell, would prefer for the public to fund and own these installations and then reap the reward of lower energy price for energy produced.
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It's funny how things go full circle, most of my life has had people decrying nationalised ownership (due to the mess industries got in through decades of lack of investment from the Govt) and if you didn't ascribe to privatisation and the free market you were some sort of lefty liberal commie.

Now, when that has failed, everyone wants to go back to nationalisation :p
 
I have never been in favour of any vital services being privatised. that said, that isn't to say any of these companies were well run when nationalised either..... I have to believe it is possible to run nationalised companies in an efficient and professional (dare I even say profitable) manner and if nationalised any profits go into the coffers. other countries seem to manage it ok.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I have never been in favour of any vital services being privatised. that said, that isn't to say any of these companies were well run when nationalised either..... I have to believe it is possible to run nationalised companies in an efficient and professional (dare I even say profitable) manner and if nationalised any profits go into the coffers. other countries seem to manage it ok.
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Absolutely agree, its probably just down to us as a country being the worst idlers in the world and without the yoke of capitalism bearing down on our necks forcing us to work for scraps with the promise of crumbs, we're even lazier and less productive! ;)
 
Freakbro said:
It's funny how things go full circle, most of my life has had people decrying nationalised ownership (due to the mess industries got in through decades of lack of investment from the Govt) and if you didn't ascribe to privatisation and the free market you were some sort of lefty liberal commie.

Now, when that has failed, everyone wants to go back to nationalisation :p
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It can’t be a bad thing to use taxpayer money to fund and own renewable energy generation and then pass on the savings directly to the public. Why does any of our vital infrastructure need to owned by private corporations and operated as a means of making money for these corporations? Some things can stay as they are, but we can’t have private corporations earning huge levels of profit, off the back of people struggling. It can’t be like this.
 
bigmike20vt said:
I have never been in favour of any vital services being privatised. that said, that isn't to say any of these companies were well run when nationalised either..... I have to believe it is possible to run nationalised companies in an efficient and professional (dare I even say profitable) manner and if nationalised any profits go into the coffers. other countries seem to manage it ok.
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They can be operated as private companies in effect, the same people can work at these companies but the profit goes back to the taxpayer, not into the hands of the wealthy.
 
I wonder when we will go back to 20-25p a day standing charge. I had a deal 3 years ago which had 5p standing charge for gas and electricity. Good times, can’t see that ever being the case again.
 
Doobedoo said:
They can be operated as private companies in effect, the same people can work at these companies but the profit goes back to the taxpayer, not into the hands of the wealthy.
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If these companies are nationalised there is not incentive to invest - just look at the NHS. Long waiting times, hospitals closing, people/patients unhappy, inefficient and poor value contracts
The private energy companies are regulated on profits and need to justify every penny. Most profits are linked to innovation, investment and delivering world class customer service.

It’s easy to look at the current situation and claim it would all be solved with Governemnt ownership, but in practice it doesn’t work like that.

Whilst the situation in France looks rosey now with their 4% capped prices, they will struggle to keep that going into next year, with a load of debt built up, Nuclear stations struggling to meet demand and a very high future energy price.
 
Has anyone left the grid in some way
413x said:
Never!
It'll never go back to that.
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It'll go back just after we get the half penny back and copper coins.

I would have liked a 3yr fixed deal from ages back but never saw them. Only fixed deals I saw didnt appeal as it was not likely to rise to meet that cap, however in the last 2 years its been reasonable to do so. Martin Lewis has not been advising fixed deals during the last two years, unfortunately he didnt want to advise something that can cost more but its a kind of insurance.

On that basis, the 55p or 40p (ev) tariffs on Octopus mentioned make good sense imo. Seems like the advice should be do it (ironically if everyone did take them up maybe they cease to offer them)
 
SDK^ said:
If these companies are nationalised there is not incentive to invest - just look at the NHS. Long waiting times, hospitals closing, people/patients unhappy, inefficient and poor value contracts
The private energy companies are regulated on profits and need to justify every penny. Most profits are linked to innovation, investment and delivering world class customer service.

It’s easy to look at the current situation and claim it would all be solved with Governemnt ownership, but in practice it doesn’t work like that.

Whilst the situation in France looks rosey now with their 4% capped prices, they will struggle to keep that going into next year, with a load of debt built up, Nuclear stations struggling to meet demand and a very high future energy price.
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We invest ourselves with the profits gained by not paying private corporations huge sums in profit. Think of as agents in football. Huge sums of money going out of the game, thus less money being reinvested back into grass roots ect.
 
SDK^ said:
If these companies are nationalised there is not incentive to invest - just look at the NHS. Long waiting times, hospitals closing, people/patients unhappy, inefficient and poor value contracts
The private energy companies are regulated on profits and need to justify every penny. Most profits are linked to innovation, investment and delivering world class customer service.

It’s easy to look at the current situation and claim it would all be solved with Governemnt ownership, but in practice it doesn’t work like that.

Whilst the situation in France looks rosey now with their 4% capped prices, they will struggle to keep that going into next year, with a load of debt built up, Nuclear stations struggling to meet demand and a very high future energy price.
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I believe that's what the issue was in past? Things were privatised because there was no incentive to improve/reinvest?

From what Iver heard from people who lived back when things were nationalised it was pretty ****
 
413x said:
I believe that's what the issue was in past? Things were privatised because there was no incentive to improve/reinvest?

From what Iver heard from people who lived back when things were nationalised it was pretty ****
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Things don’t have to be like they were a long time ago, what was it 50 years ago now? Most of those people are pretty much dead now. We run them like businesses except the dividends go straight into the public coffers. It’s not rocket science and I expect those kicking and dragging heels, are maybe those that currently benefit more.
 
413x said:
I believe that's what the issue was in past? Things were privatised because there was no incentive to improve/reinvest?

From what Iver heard from people who lived back when things were nationalised it was pretty ****
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there is good and bad tho. I believe nationalised companies must surely be able to be run properly. and if they are "we" get the profits.

of course private companies can also be run well but the difference there is shareholders get the profits..... surely the profits feeding back to the country has to be better.
 
Doobedoo said:
Things don’t have to be like they were a long time ago, what was it 50 years ago now? Most of those people are pretty much dead now. We run them like businesses except the dividends go straight into the public coffers. It’s not rocket science and I expect those kicking and dragging heels, are maybe those that currently benefit more.
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I wouldn't have much faith in anything run by our government now.
Money would probably be funneled out in some dodgy deals or other corruption.


In an ideal world all core needs would be nationalised. But I personally don't have faith in our political system for it to be anything other than a disaster.
 
Doobedoo said:
We invest ourselves with the profits gained by not paying private corporations huge sums in profit. Think of as agents in football. Huge sums of money going out of the game, thus less money being reinvested back into grass roots ect.
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That never happens though - any profits just get syphoned off for something else, whatever is the hottest project of the moment.
The difference with your football agent example is the Shareholders in energy companies have invested large sums of their own money to support the innovation and expect a %back. For National Grid, shareholders currently get 8%, so it’s not a huge share.
 
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413x said:
I wouldn't have much faith in anything run by our government now.
Money would probably be funneled out in some dodgy deals or other corruption.


In an ideal world all core needs would be nationalised. But I personally don't have faith in our political system for it to be anything other than a disaster.
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Who is on the other end of this corruption and dodgy deals? Those running these corporations. If you have no faith in the government, which I completely understand by the way, then stop enabling them by giving them votes of confidence every 4 years.
 
SDK^ said:
That never happens though - any profits just get syphoned off for something else, whatever is the hottest project of the moment.
The difference with your football agent example is the Shareholders in energy companies have invested large sums of their own money to support the innovation.
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The taxpayers already are supporting with large sums of money via increased costs, subsidies, tax breaks ect.
 
Doobedoo said:
The taxpayers already are supporting with large sums of money via increased costs, subsidies, tax breaks ect.
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Tax payers - you mean customers :p
You don’t need to be a tax payer to receive energy, just so happens most are.

You could use your argument for anything . Taxpayers supporting car companies because they buy them at ever increasing prices.
 
SDK^ said:
Tax payers - you mean customers :p
You don’t need to be a tax payer to receive energy, just so happens most are.

You could use your argument for anything . Taxpayers supporting car companies because they buy them at ever increasing prices.
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Taxpayer/customer.

Yes you can but this is a thread about energy not cars.
 
Doobedoo said:
Taxpayer/customer.

Yes you can but this is a thread about energy not cars.
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Yep I know, was just an example, like your pointless football agent example [you have a short memory :p ]

Your ‘taxpayer’ point has no substance - You‘re just throwing words around
 
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