But quite a decent chunk for the supplier who will have millions in credit from its customers. Remember not everyone can afford the luxury of having hundreds in credit when they are struggling with the increase in all other bills and outgoings.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
- Thread starter DXP55
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Suppliers are also owed £1.3 billion.
Households already owe £1.3bn to energy suppliers - even before winter bill hikes set in
Energy debt in Great Britain has hit an all-time high - already three times higher than it was a year ago - and many householders now fear being forced to switch to a prepayment meter if they fall behind.
Exactly people are struggling now not everyone can afford to build up a float.Suppliers are also owed £1.3 billion.
Households already owe £1.3bn to energy suppliers - even before winter bill hikes set in
Energy debt in Great Britain has hit an all-time high - already three times higher than it was a year ago - and many householders now fear being forced to switch to a prepayment meter if they fall behind.news.sky.com
I quite often see people on here talk about I’ll buy that when payday comes. I know it’s inconceivable to some of you but lots of people live hand to mouth. Winter has yet to arrive it’s not going to get easier.
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Soldato
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I still don't understand how Shell do their calculations. They just sent our annual usage summaries, we've only been with them since Jan, so not quite a year but plenty of data there. Their estimate for our next year of electricity has us using 65kWh a month more than we've ever used in the past 11 months, 95kWh more than we've averaged in the past 6 months. Where do they get these numbers from?
Before anyone asks, yes our bill is set to pay in full every month.
The suppliers deliberately over-estimate. It is far better for them to operate with a positive amount in their accounts than a negative amount. They would much prefer if you pay too much and then have to write you a cheque every now and then. If they have one million accounts that are all in the black, just think how much interest that is for them! But just as importantly they don't want to get in to CS arguments "but you told me it would be so much, and its lots more...".
They're owed £1.3 billion. Unless they're holding credits of at least that much energy suppliers are overall financing customers' debts, not earning interest.
Soldato
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This suppliers earning interest is nonsense
I mean seriously I am sure some people think they put it a savings account or something
I wonder how people think all this energy they are getting that even best case they will pay for at the end of the month is funded...
I mean seriously I am sure some people think they put it a savings account or something
I wonder how people think all this energy they are getting that even best case they will pay for at the end of the month is funded...
Soldato
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Well at the moment that doesn't surprise me. Things are weird alright.
Soldato
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You obviously have never worked for an energy supplier then.
Many people pay a fixed monthly amount, so building up a lot of credit during the summer months. I shouldn't have to explain that.
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And for some it's the other way around, they build up a big debit during the winter months. I shouldn't have to explain that.
Soldato
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We aren't talking about them, we were talking about why the companies usually over-estimate. I shouldn't have to explain that.
Why aren't we talking about them? Clearly the consumers who owe them money are as relevent as the consumers whose money they hold. Anything else you need explaining?
Soldato
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Your going to need to try a bit harder to "explain"
Its irrelevant if one part of a customer base is owed money when another owes money. Its the net balance that dictates whether the energy company has a net surplus or deficit of customer money, in effect "on deposit"
Then of course its also the money they have spent in regards purchasing the energy, again it doesn't magically come for free.
Instead of making stuff up I tend to look for actual numbers.
Now whilst the balances of customers are not specifically detailed looking at Octopus full year 2021 accounts.
They have net current assets of £463M and net current liabilities of £528M. I assume all the customers funds are in there and as such the net position is likely the difference between them, so roughly £65M or so is likely the net position of customer funds they have hold of.
They say they have 2.1M retail customers, so an average of 65/2.1 = £31 per customer.
I couldn't see any specific details in their accounts on where these balances do or do not include customer deposits and due balances or not, but I suspect they do considering the size of the numbers and the size of the business.
I guess I needed to explain that
I still don't understand how Shell do their calculations. They just sent our annual usage summaries, we've only been with them since Jan, so not quite a year but plenty of data there. Their estimate for our next year of electricity has us using 65kWh a month more than we've ever used in the past 11 months, 95kWh more than we've averaged in the past 6 months. Where do they get these numbers from?
Before anyone asks, yes our bill is set to pay in full every month.
It's because they are a bunch of useless incompetent *****. Once I finally get my refund from them I'm switching to Octopus.
liabilities includes committed payments for future energy purchase, equally, given ofcom tightened up on management of customer credits, they can't run those on their books like a physical company asset.
e: first google ofgen safeguarding customer credit
Proposed Reforms on Protecting Credit Balances and Renewables Obligations – Evaluating Cost and Benefits Prepared for Ofgem
e: first google ofgen safeguarding customer credit
Proposed Reforms on Protecting Credit Balances and Renewables Obligations – Evaluating Cost and Benefits Prepared for Ofgem
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I posted earlier in this thread about OVO wanting my direct debit up to £330 a month from £125 originally. I’m glad I argued it (all the way to complaint level) as I’m still £270 in credit and my October bill was £52 after the government top up so my £125 DD more than covers still.
Seems very common for suppliers to push DDs up and it shouldn’t be allowed by Ofgem at all if you’re in significant credit.
Seems very common for suppliers to push DDs up and it shouldn’t be allowed by Ofgem at all if you’re in significant credit.
Soldato
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Prices of hard wood (dry) logs in your area, anyone bought some recently?
I got a whole car full of wet pine for a tenner, not really that useful near term. In theory if theres a storm, it can be any wood type but pine is cheap for sure
I got a whole car full of wet pine for a tenner, not really that useful near term. In theory if theres a storm, it can be any wood type but pine is cheap for sure
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Poor argument. They should not be using my money that I worked for, to pay other people's debts. That is the definition of communism !
It’s about £1/kg here for kiln dried stuff.
A 1 “tonne” bag to give you an idea of the size, is about 225kg for £190, so a bit cheaper than £1/kg.
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It's a fact. I didn't argue for it or ask anyone to agree with it.