Engine re-mapping - Thoughts?

[HoneyBadger]

I fitted a racechip many years ago to a 1.4 diesel Auris, it felt quicker to me so I decided to not tell MrsHB. She drove it and asked me if I had serviced it as it felt quicker but never had it verified. I did have a RR remap done a 180Bhp Amarok, that saw about 207Bhp If I recall, or 217, can’t remember but haven’t been arsed since.

if I were going to do it, I’d have it done on a RR like I did on the Amarok.

 

[Conscript]

If the car is Naturally Aspirated (i.e. not super/turbo charged), don't bother, waste of money tbh.

Disagree. I had a new manifold fitted to my car and a remap, and although the peak power was only increased by about 10%, the notorious torque dip in the midrange was completely eliminated, and the car drives much better as a result. And that seems to be the common experience of man other owners who've done the same modifications without going for a turbo/supercharger.
Granted, forced induction will yield the biggest improvement, but it's not all about chasing peak power figures, and it certainly wasn't a waste of money.

 

[theone8181]

Ah of course, silly me, nobody was ever trying that's it.

It depends what you're classing as fast too.

 

[233]

Ye, pretty much everything I’ve owned over the past fifteen years bar the omega skulking in the corner of the workshop has been forced induction either petrol or diesel and has seen great gains from mapping, some of these are racked up many hundreds of thousands of miles in that time whilst mapped with no discernible issues.

mine but of advice I will offer Is do it right and not on the cheap find a reputable tuner who knows your marque and try to avoid off the shelf flash maps.

you will not need to go upgrading brakes or suspensions etc so ignore those comments, at the end of the day your still driving a car in similar fashions that weighs exactly the same as it did before you change some 1s and 0s inside the ecu. Interestingly enough Ford diesels are switchable between 150/180 bhp versions of the same map using diagnostic software as the map is already on the ecu tried this on several Mondeo with good effect using ELM although a decent map is far superior as an example my current work runabout is a diesel Kuga which left the factory with 150hp and 275 lbs/ft of torque. Bit of time on the rolling road later it has 215bhp and nigh on 375 lbs/ft of torque

which makes it much more enjoyable to drive

I’ve had multiple other diesels running north of 200k miles with remaps with no noticeable additional wear and tear it really all depends on how you utilise it. If you suddenly map your car then decide you love the extra power and want to do full bore launches from every set of traffic lights then yes your running costs will increase significantly. If you drive it the same as you did previously and enjoy the extra performance as and when required you shouldn’t really notice any increase in running costs.

therew plenty of arguments around fuel economy and maps some would say the extra torque makes you drive smoother so better mpg chances are you’ll embrace the additional performance and your mpg will drop at least in the short term. One advice I would offer is to make sure regardless of map or not is regular servicing with quality parts. Doubly so if you are tuning a car in any significant way.

to give you an idea of some performance gains

Ford 2l diesel 150bhp to 215 x3 cars
Older 140 diesel to somewhere north of 230bhp with a few hardware changes as well
X5 286 bhp to 375bhp
Jag xf 240bhp to 320 bhp

all diesel with massive gains in drive ability and huge gains in torque figures

some cars offer even better gains. Can caddy vans for example with nearly nearly double the power on some models the later 102bhp caddy for example maps to 195 bhp and gains nearly 140lbs/ft of torque with nothing more than software changes some of the BMWs are the same down to the manufacturers using the same engine and hardware in different models.



what do you drive OP ?

 

[pugheaven]

Disagree. I had a new manifold fitted to my car and a remap, and although the peak power was only increased by about 10%, the notorious torque dip in the midrange was completely eliminated, and the car drives much better as a result. And that seems to be the common experience of man other owners who've done the same modifications without going for a turbo/supercharger.
Granted, forced induction will yield the biggest improvement, but it's not all about chasing peak power figures, and it certainly wasn't a waste of money.

But what you have done is different to the OP. That's like when I changed the headers on my CBR600F4, it creates a torque dip and I needed it remapped to remove that dip and smooth the power delivery out again. That's not the same thing here.

You've made an actual modification on the car and making a modification then throws more variables into the pot which you should get remapped if you want the benefit OR you caused a problem by that change. My SRT8 is an NA engine which was remapped and got around 5bhp more which isn't even worth it and even could come down to dyno fluctuation... BUT then I amended the intake at great cost that sucks in 30% plus more air, upped the fuel to 99ron VPower, replaced all the spark plugs with iridiums, cleaned all the PVC recycle circuit and installed a catch can so the air is 100% pure and also put a breather on the oil filler instead of reciculating oily vapours back into the intake manifold which then messes with everything as it's not standard.These changes can result in power gains and is known as sensible changes to make.

So had a custom remap on this lot and it's gone from 421bhp to 451bhp (6.8% and that was with one of the best tuners in the game for Jeep in the states)... in the grand scheme of things can barely feel it. BUT, the throttle response and gear changes have all been reprogrammed and this is where it "feels" more responsive, not because of more power. Now, if I'd gona cams, headers, full exhaust and decat, yes you would have to remap as you'd screw everythiong up PLUS you'd be missing out on a LOT of extra power because you're changing complete internals.

However, the OP wasn't doing engine mods, it was simply a remap. The best he can expect is a slight smoothing on his power delivery and you'd be lucky to get anywhere near 10% imho. I'd say 2-5% at absolute best on an NA engine with no mods. However it may change his throttle response (if it can be amended) but I stand by my statement, taking a STANDARD N/A car and remapping will not make any difference to performance that you'll notice. For the cost v's benefit? nahhh. There might be the odd car that responds better or was detuned from factory but unless you know this I personally wouldn't bother.

BTW, glad your tune worked out, nice feeling when it does! What car was it?

 

[Conscript]

But what you have done is different to the OP. That's like when I changed the headers on my CBR600F4, it creates a torque dip and I needed it remapped to remove that dip and smooth the power delivery out again. That's not the same thing here.

You've made an actual modification on the car and making a modification then throws more variables into the pot which you should get remapped if you want the benefit OR you caused a problem by that change. My SRT8 is an NA engine which was remapped and got around 5bhp more which isn't even worth it and even could come down to dyno fluctuation... BUT then I amended the intake at great cost that sucks in 30% plus more air, upped the fuel to 99ron VPower, replaced all the spark plugs, cleaned all the PVC recycle circuit and installed a catch can so the air is 100% pure which then messes with everything.These changes can result in power gains and is known.

So had a custom remap on this lot and it's gone from 421bhp to 451bhp (6.8% and that was with one of the best tuners in the game for Jeep in the states)... in the grand scheme of things can barely feel it. BUT, the throttle response and gear changes have all been reprogrammed and this is where it "feels" more responsive, not because of more power. Now, if I'd gona cams, headers, full exhaust and decat, yes you would have to remap as you'd screw everythiong up PLUS you'd be missing out on a LOT of extra power because you're changing complete internals.

However, the OP wasn't doing engine mods, it was simply a remap. The best he can expect is a slight smoothing on his power delivery and you'd be lucky to get anywhere near 10% imho. I'd say 2-5% at absolute best on an NA engine with no mods. However it may change his throttle response but I stand by my statement, taking a STANDARD N/A car and remapping will not make any difference to performance that you'll notice. For the cost v's benefit? nahhh. There might be the odd car that responds better or was detuned from factory but unless you know this I personally wouldn't bother.

BTW, glad your tune worked out, nice feeling when it does! What car was it?

Fair enough, suppose you're right. Although I'm sure in my cars case, there's been a few people who have had good results of getting rid of the problem with just a tune - it's just that a new manifold is usually considered the best way to get the most out of it. Car is a GT86.

 

[Nasher]

Tuning NA engines can be really expensive and not worth it a lot of the time.

You can often get a few hp with a better intake, full exhaust and 200 cell cat (you really need to do the lot to see a gain). But leave it at that.

 

[dlockers]

I had my 1.4 TDCi rolling road remapped at RS Tuning in Leeds. I got a whopping 100+hp from the stock 69, and a crazy amount of torque. Was a right laugh, made a huge difference. Chuffed a lot of particulate though that's for sure.

 

[adam cool dude]

I had my Saab 9-5 Noob Tuned to stage 1 who is a renowned Saab remapper. Taking from 250BHP to 280BHP/420NM. I blew the engine less than a year later at 150K.

I guess it depends on how old the car is and if you know the history of it. I would advise against it on an old motor.

 

[Simon]

40hp on a remap when tied with a decat. All depends on the car.

 

[Xein]

what do you drive OP ?

Currently own a Volvo V40 (late 2016 model)

Edit: Appreciate all the valuable and constructive posts surrounding this.

 

[sovietspybob]

some cars offer even better gains. Can caddy vans for example with nearly nearly double the power on some models the later 102bhp caddy for example maps to 195 bhp and gains nearly 140lbs/ft of torque with nothing more than software changes some of the BMWs are the same down to the manufacturers using the same engine and hardware in different models.

I've got one of those 2.0 TDI 102PS VW caddy's as my work van, i'd love to remap that. It it were my own vehicle i'd have done it ages ago as its a truly terrible thing to drive with the standard map, you can feel how the turbo spools up but is then held back as the revs rise to cap the power. The rest of the van is pretty terrible too to be honest but if it had a decent engine at least it wouldn't be such a chore to drive.

 

[Funky-Melon]

Currently own a Volvo V40 (late 2016 model)

Edit: Appreciate all the valuable and constructive posts surrounding this.

Just read your OP properly - 70hp is a pretty large gain for a 2.0 T2 - What company is quoting these figures?

 

[Xein]

Just read your OP properly - 70hp is a pretty large gain for a 2.0 T2 - What company is quoting these figures?

Mallory Performance

Below is the 'quick' quote online and these were the figures also shared with me whilst emailing.

Spoiler: Picture

 

[dlockers]

Just read your OP properly - 70hp is a pretty large gain for a 2.0 T2 - What company is quoting these figures?

120bhp is also incredibly low for a 2.0T as well isn't it? Fiestas were hitting that in 2005 on the 1.6 TDCi.

 

[Funky-Melon]

120bhp is also incredibly low for a 2.0T as well isn't it? Fiestas were hitting that in 2005 on the 1.6 TDCi.

Yes, after a quick read it appears Volvo used the exact same hardware setup for the economical T2, the mid range T3 and higher power (190hp) T4, with only the more powerful T5 being different, so looks like just the mapping is different.

I guess in that case those remap numbers for the T2 are more plausible since it'll take you to near enough standard T4 performance.

 

[theone8181]

Yes, after a quick read it appears Volvo used the exact same hardware setup for the economical T2, the mid range T3 and higher power (190hp) T4, with only the more powerful T5 being different, so looks like just the mapping is different.

I guess in that case those remap numbers for the T2 are more plausible since it'll take you to near enough standard T4 performance.

I'd just be wary as sometimes it's the ancillaries that are changed too, not just a map.

Edit, between the different models, not meaning a mapper will change parts so a map might not give all those gains.

 

[IC3]

What car and engine?

 

[Xein]

What car and engine?

If that's for myself, it's a Volvo V40 T2Rdesign 2L

 

[HangTime]

I would advise against it on an old motor.

I guess the flipside to this is with an old motor you have 'less to lose' in terms of invalidating warranty etc. With an older car, you might take a risk on the basis that if it blows up you haven't lost that much. Sort of thing you might do when you are considering getting rid of a car, either it gets a new lease of life from the mod, or it goes wrong and you then replace it like you were originally thinking of doing anyway. On a new car, I think I'd be kicking myself if it was mapped and then unable to repair under warranty.