Engineers/Engineering

[Building Candy]

I can make/design things as I have shown on here in the past.

Im not an Engineer, have not trained or been educated as one, so in terms of titles and what people call themselves, everyone is different, dont judge a book by its cover, you never know what skills someone may be harbouring.

 

[Gaijin]

Personally a few years ago I was redefining my job role (in IT) and consequently - my job title with my boss. An Engineer-containing job title was thrown into the mix and quickly thrown out again as I didn't feel it was an accurate descriptor.

I think its introduction and presence in IT is quite tragic, shadowed only by the people who get so bent out of shape about it.

It is what it is, and practically everyone I know in the industry thinks its a shamworthy attempt at glorifying a job title.

No-one really cries about it though, certainly not as much as on here.

 

[Dave M]

But do we, people who are not engineers, care? No. A guy does a thing. And you can dress this up as "oh but it's not proper engineering!" or "but he's only a phone engineer!" but to the people who are receiving the benefit of what the guy is doing, it's irrelevant.

I think it's really important for professions and professionals to not forget what they're employed to do. As soon as you hit the "but I'm better than you" button then you do yourself a massive disservice.

It's nothing to do with the field it's the inability to distinguish between engineering, craft and fitting.

A phone engineer isn't the person who puts your phone in, he's a fitter (if that, virtually unskilled labour), the people who sat down with huge schematics and equipment specs and designed the telephone exchange are phone engineers.

The term is massively stretched in the UK anyway, for example:

I started off as a toolmaker working with lathes and Mills, manual and CNC, this is proper engineering and i do miss it
I now design/modify our products using Solidworks which is a 3d cad package and i am also in charge of production

Designing is more like my interpretation of engineering than when he was operating the mills making the tools - that's a highly skilled craft but not engineering. I'd still be far happier with this use of engineer than unskilled labourers plugging a phone in.

 

[KaHn]

You've posted this before and for the same reasons. It's trolling. I should probably also state that it doesn't involve me in any way and if you engineers want to do this thing again then I guess that's fine.

So in sense you have basically come into a thread for the sole point of disagreeing with me? Great.........

That two different countries 'protect' a title means little to me. Do you live in either of them?

I've worked all over the world, Poland, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Cyprus, Egypt and with engineers from a lot more countries than that so I can safely say that the title of engineer is regarded a lot higher than in this country.

But as I've said and stated that this thread was to find out numbers, I still think system admins etc should not be called an engineer but on the grand scheme of it, it doesn't bother me outside of my field as everyone understands this, but as a whole in this country its getting silly.

KaHn

 

[Hg80]

I don't consider anyone an engineer unless qualified with a BEng or higher, including myself, hence referring to myself as a scientist. I have 'research engineer' as my job title but I'm not technically an engineer.

What about those who done apprenticeships? I did a 4 year one in a toolroom as a toolmaker and have various NVQ's up to Level 4 and also various academic qualifications like BTEC HND etc.
I believe you need to have the best of both in order to say you are an engineer, as it’s all being well having the qualifications and paperwork to say you’re an engineer, but real life experience to me outweighs paperwork here.
I have worked with what I would say are some of the finest engineers I have known and a lot of them have never been to uni, they have worked in toolrooms and like ever since leaving school back in year dot, and they can solve even the greatest problems and can beat a CNC mill or lathe in work quality etc.

 

[loltim]

You've asked this question before kahn, I'm sure of it. We get it, you're a real engineer

I used to be an engineer at BT and the job title is cringe worthy, I was an IT support phone monkey. So I guess I'm in agreement!

 

[alx]

In response to KaHn's other questions, I've got a Chemical Engineering degree, MEng.

I'm currently a Metering/Allocations Engineer in the oil and gas sector, but very much in training at the moment . I also spent a year as a process engineer whilst on placement.

 

[Dinomania]

But do we, people who are not engineers, care? No. A guy does a thing. And you can dress this up as "oh but it's not proper engineering!" or "but he's only a phone engineer!" but to the people who are receiving the benefit of what the guy is doing, it's irrelevant.

No, you don't care. Not a problem!

But I am now a teacher of Physics, and I care a great deal that many of the kids have barely even heard of engineering. They are incredibly suggestible, and due to a talk having been given to them by a marine biologist, suddenly that's what a lot of them want to be. They hear about designers and architects, but few have realised that those jobs wouldn't exist without the engineers behind them realising the design into something possible, safe, and cost-effective.

Many of the students are chasing money, and because engineers are undervalued and underpaid in this country, we will soon be short of a highly skilled engineering body. Engineers at university are some of the busiest students, only medics do longer hours in labs and lectures - and yet they come out into a world that doesn't appreciate them.

Is it surprising that the UK has lost manufacturing and much of its R&D work to the continent and the far east? My other half works in a large aeroplane firm, and the only way to get up the ranks and pay grades in the company is to move to its French division.

I care because the country needs good engineering - and given where it stands in the public consciousness, we won't get it. I don't care because of some prissy idea of how I wish other people to see me.

 

[Dave M]

I can make/design things as I have shown on here in the past.

Im not an Engineer, have not trained or been educated as one, so in terms of titles and what people call themselves, everyone is different, dont judge a book by its cover, you never know what skills someone may be harbouring.

Iif you see a problem and design a part to fix that problem (whether in your head, on the back of a fag packet or in a huge CAD drawing) then I'd class it as engineering - not an engineer by trade perhaps, but you've done some engineering.

Just as I could kick about a ball with my mates, it's football - but I'm not going to get paid for it anytime soon.

 

[kiteloopy]

If you don't qualify for chartered status then in my opinion you are not an engineer.

By chartered, you mean one of these right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charte...ies_qualified_to_register_Chartered_Engineers

My job is providing me the opportunities to become a Chartered Engineer in a few years time; CEng (IET).

 

[Trifid]

A proper engineer is A highly skilled occupation. Engineers design things. Engineering is hard. Not everyone can do it.

What about someone who designs IT solutions?


My opinion is using the term engineer is a way of being polite within IT but can see how it has come about. It may devalue the word engineer as a whole but real engineers can bring that back by defining what type they are i.e. civil engineer.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

So in sense you have basically come into a thread for the sole point of disagreeing with me? Great.........

Well, I came in to point out that this has been done to death and the only people who really care are the 'proper' engineers and the 'improper' engineers. Everyone else is pretty ambivalent as long as you guys do your job.

I've worked all over the world, Poland, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Cyprus, Egypt and with engineers from a lot more countries than that so I can safely say that the title of engineer is regarded a lot higher than in this country.

And that's fine, it really is.

But as I've said and stated that this thread was to find out numbers, I still think system admins etc should not be called an engineer but on the grand scheme of it, it doesn't bother me outside of my field as everyone understands this, but as a whole in this country its getting silly.

KaHn

So what will happen is that the 100 'proper' engineers will say it's a travesty that the lowly engineers can use the title and the lowly engineers will either not repond or have a hissy fit and everyone else will wonder why this has been raised yet again by a 'proper' engineer.

 

[KaHn]

You've asked this question before kahn, I'm sure of it. We get it, you're a real engineer

Must havebeen a while ago, this came up in topic when I met up with -Ad- for a beer the other week and I was discussing it with another engineer last night and recently in a thread which is why I wanted to know the numbers I put my view on it at the end of the question as to not post and run

KaHn

 

[Compound]

I'm a senior design engineer in the aerospace industry. Got a BSc (Hons) in aeronautical engineering. Graduated with a first.

Might not do as many sums as other departments but I still like to think of myself as an engineer. There is a lot of skill involved and knowledge required for the decisions needed to design and integrate aerospace structures and components. Not all engineering uses first principles on a daily basis!

 

[KaHn]

Well, I came in to point out that this has been done to death and the only people who really care are the 'proper' engineers and the 'improper' engineers. Everyone else is pretty ambivalent as long as you guys do your job.

Again my question was regarding the numbers on here as it interested me, was not to belittle them I know its down to the company in question but on a whole when I tell people I'm an engineer i normally get a dumbfounded look and thats down to the diluted nature of the title.

So what will happen is that the 100 'proper' engineers will say it's a travesty that the lowly engineers can use the title and the lowly engineers will either not repond or have a hissy fit and everyone else will wonder why this has been raised yet again by a 'proper' engineer.

Seems to be going that way, but I really did just want to see how many IT guys, washing machine engineers, BT Engineers and even CNC operators who call themselves engineers.

KaHn

 

[Ascendancy]

Washing Machine Engineer was the best one I've come across.

 

[Compound]

Oh and also I've met some incredible engineers in my career so far who havent been chartered. I've also met some incredibly useless chartered engineers who I would not wish to work with. I'll make my own judgements how capable someone is, I won't just assume they are good because they have a Ceng

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Again my question was regarding the numbers on here as it interested me, was not to belittle them I know its down to the company in question but on a whole when I tell people I'm an engineer i normally get a dumbfounded look and thats down to the diluted nature of the title.



Seems to be going that way, but I really did just want to see how many IT guys, washing machine engineers, BT Engineers and even CNC operators who call themselves engineers.

KaHn

You should probably not post things like this if that is what you're after :

Personally it doesnt bother me on a day to day basis if support monkeys want to call themselves engineers but seems to be happening more and more recently.

Just an idea

 

[[TW]Fox]

What about someone who designs IT solutions?
.

Choosing which off the shelf products to fit and how and where to put them isn't engineering either.

 

[danza]

I have an engineering HNC (going on to HND). I'm about to start a job which usually requires a degree in engineering as a Mechanical Design Engineer (not a CAD monkey). I will be using various calculations to design electromagnets for research applications, although appreciate I have a lot to learn.

I think the line can be blurred between engineer and technician. It's certainly not only about qualifications, as you can pick up some pretty advanced maths and experience as you go along and probably have similar levels of knowledge/understanding without having completed a degree/masters. It just depends on your ability and the exposure your position gives you to the very technical stuff.