Engineers/Engineering

[kiteloopy]

Choosing which off the shelf products to fit and how and where to put them isn't engineering either.

I want to agree...but I have to disagree.

Network architecture/design for international telco's is definitely engineering (of some kind). especially if the people making the boxes are asking us what we want their products to do.

 

[loltim]

I want to agree...but I have to disagree.

Network architecture/design for international telco's is definitely engineering (of some kind). especially if the people making the boxes are asking us what we want their products to do.

but you're just choosing components from a catalogue. It's definitely a skill to put the kit into place and configure it, but it's not engineering?

 

[Gaijin]

Here's a question. What would you lot think if a established and recognised form of accreditation and regulation was applied to the term "Engineer" in IT?

Would you accept it then?

 

[Sinny]

I have an engineering HNC (going on to HND). I'm about to start a job which usually requires a degree in engineering as a Mechanical Design Engineer (not a CAD monkey). I will be using various calculations to design electromagnets for research applications, although appreciate I have a lot to learn.

I think the line can be blurred between engineer and technician. It's certainly not only about qualifications, as you can pick up some pretty advanced maths and experience as you go along and probably have similar levels of knowledge/understanding without having completed a degree/masters. It just depends on your ability and the exposure your position gives you to the very technical stuff.

I find it funny that the word Technician can be abused slightly as well. My aunt owns a Salon and has someone who does beauty, however, she keeps referring to herself as a "Nail Technician".

People can do whatever they want with their job title, doesn't bother me, but This did annoy me slightly, NAIL TECHNICIAN??

 

[KaHn]

You should probably not post things like this if that is what you're after :

Just an idea

Tbh, my posting style on here hasn't changed in years and I don't plan on softening my opinions on something like this.

But nevermind, thanks to those who have answered the question correctly regarding what/how and opinion on if they are an engineer or if they are just given the title.

KaHn

 

[KaHn]

Here's a question. What would you lot think if a established and recognised form of accreditation and regulation was applied to the term "Engineer" in IT?

Would you accept it then?

Look at it this way,

A network support person is someone who goes and fixes network problems, would you be happy if he called him self a network doctor and started telling people he is a doctor?

Or someone who deals with terms and conditions problems calling themselves a lawyer?

I think the IT lot jumped on the engineer bandwagon early and opened the flood gates to everyone else. But if a reglatory body was set up which maintained the principles of say the IMechE, RAeS or IStructE etc then yes I would have no problem with them calling themselves engineer.

KaHn

 

[Haircut]

Here's a question. What would you lot think if a established and recognised form of accreditation and regulation was applied to the term "Engineer" in IT?

Would you accept it then?

I think that there should be some kind of professional qualification in IT, at least in software development. I can't comment on other areas as I don't have the knowledge to make an informed opinion and I don't necessarily think they have to be called engineers.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Tbh, my posting style on here hasn't changed in years and I don't plan on softening my opinions on something like this.

But nevermind, thanks to those who have answered the question correctly regarding what/how and opinion on if they are an engineer or if they are just given the title.

KaHn

I don't care whether your style has changed or not. You cannot - or should not - state inflammatory nonsense and then when challenged on it say that you were just enquiring, only to then later say that you won't soften your opinions.

Make your mind up. You either believe the baiting crap you made in your OP or you don't. You're an intelligent man so I'm sure we can all look forward to some clarity on this.

 

[KaHn]

I don't care whether your style has changed or not. You cannot - or should not - state inflammatory nonsense and then when challenged on it say that you were just enquiring, only to then later say that you won't soften your opinions.

Make your mind up. You either believe the baiting crap you made in your OP or you don't. You're an intelligent man so I'm sure we can all look forward to some clarity on this.

System monkeys? Is that the comment you are so wound up about? Oh please go away magnolia, this is getting tiresome, most people know how to take my humour on here and if you don't please the ignore button is right there.

KaHn

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

I'm not wound up about anything but I will bow out. I look forward to the same post in 3 months time from now.

 

[Gaijin]

A network support person is someone who goes and fixes network problems, would you be happy if he called him self a network doctor and started telling people he is a doctor?

Or someone who deals with terms and conditions problems calling themselves a lawyer?

Yes, but you have arbitrarily chosen a elementary role in IT that clearly would not apply in the scenario I outlined.

There are plenty of roles in IT which could essentially be aligned to skill sets and processes of a typical engineer.

To generalise from the infallible and undisputed truth that is wikipedia:

....concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems....

....develop new technological solutions....

may include defining problems, conducting and narrowing research, analyzing criteria, finding and analyzing solutions, and making decisions. Much of an engineer's time is spent on researching, locating, applying, and transferring information

....apply techniques of engineering analysis in testing, production, or maintenance....

....determine the causes of a process failure, and test output to maintain quality. They also estimate the time and cost required to complete projects. Supervisory engineers are responsible for major components or entire projects. Engineering analysis involves the application of scientific analytic principles and processes to reveal the properties and state of the system, device or mechanism under study....

 

[KaHn]

There are plenty of roles in IT which could essentially be aligned to skill sets and processes of a typical engineer.

And I said if that was the case I would happily call them an engineer, but for this to happen it would require the title to be protected within the UK or would you still want the line blurred with those who have went through this new body with other people in the IT profession using the title?

KaHn

 

[KaHn]

I'm not wound up about anything but I will bow out. I look forward to the same post in 3 months time from now.

Post or thread? I'll probably post this again if it comes up I won't be posting the exact same thread in 3 months time asking the same question, but thanks, you can be my internet stalker now if you wish?

KaHn

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Post or thread? I'll probably post this again if it comes up I won't be posting the exact same thread in 3 months time asking the same question, but thanks, you can be my internet stalker now if you wish?

KaHn

Uh, this came up because you posted a(nother) thread about it.

e : ok, now I really AM out. I actually don't care. Take your definition of your profession and go bother other people.

 

[KaHn]

Kahn, I thought you'd said before that those in the industry know the difference, and that's what matters... and that the term "engineer" being used more wisely didn't annoy you.

I did and on a day to day basis it doesn't. Doesn't mean that I don't think the term should be protected in the UK.

KaHn

 

[div0]

Why do people really care?

It's like people who refer to themselves as managers, when in fact they're in charge of one or two people.

Surely all that really matters is the salary and job satisfaction.

I'd happily work as a 'Run-of-the-mill Minion' for £100k doing something I liked, but likewise I wouldn't be interested in being the 'Chief Supreme Engineering Manager' of a drain clearing company, getting paid £16k a year.

 

[[TW]Fox]

especially if the people making the boxes are asking us what we want their products to do.

Yea, thats totally engineering.

Doesnt that make everyone who orders something custom from a company an engineer?

Watch out Isambard Kingdom Brunel, the latest generation of engineers are ordering IT hardware from manufacturers with custom requirements!

 

[Brynn]

Instrument Engineer in Oil & Gas, with a MEng in engineering and working towards my CEng.

I get wound up by the amount of Heating Engineers I see in their white vans. If you drive a white van for work, you aren't an engineer. Engineers should be stuck in an office. Anything else is a Technician.

I would agree with kiteloopy's comment earlier - Any monkey can choose a part off the shelf, but you have to know its going to communicate with the other parts.

Or in my case, not corrode in a matter of days if the wrong material is specced, or potentially blow up - if the correct pressure rating isn't chosen.

 

[grumpysculler]

I used to get wound up about this, I try not to anymore. I think we could do a massively better job of educating the masses about professional engineers and particularly CEng, IEng, EngTech. Engineering isn't about fixing cars and central heating or installing washing machines, but if you say you are an engineer then that's what the public perception is.

Rob MEng EngD MIET (and soon to be CEng I hope!)

 

[[TW]Fox]

"Photocopier Broken, Engineer Called"