Engineers/Engineering

[Duff-Man]

I'm not sure whether or not I would be classified as a "true" engineer - it all depends on perspective really:

On the one hand I have an MSc and a PhD in Engineering subjects, I work in the Engineering department of a University, and I tend to publish my research mainly in engineering journals. On the other hand my first degree was in maths, and 95% of what I do is at least derived from mathematical manipulation and programming. I haven't worked with any machinery or performed any physical experiments in the past five years.

I do tend to think of myself as an engineer, and looking at the definitions I should qualify for chartered engineer status - but I don't think many other people would think of me as an engineer. To others in our department, who tend to do more practical work, I'm a mathematician. To my friends back home (who are mainly welders / fitters etc) people who do "poncy computer type work and sit behind a desk" have no right to call themselves an engineer. They actually get really wound up about this - to them, an engineer is someone who works with machinery, and anyone else who calls himself an engineer is just a fraud and a "poser".


Personally I don't really care either way. When I apply for a job it will be clear what skill-sets are required. I doubt many welders will turn up for a job involving writing CFD simulation code, and vice-versa. Neither do I believe that wide use of the term "engineer" dilutes the market-value of work done by "true" engineers. The only devaluation of the term is in the perception of the general public. But personally I couldn't give a crap what other people's perception of my job is. I certainly never use the term "engineer" when people ask me what I do...

 

[cm1179]

I find it funny that the word Technician can be abused slightly as well. My aunt owns a Salon and has someone who does beauty, however, she keeps referring to herself as a "Nail Technician".

People can do whatever they want with their job title, doesn't bother me, but This did annoy me slightly, NAIL TECHNICIAN??

but she is a technician. technician is someone who is experienced and can overcome problems without having to seek advice. lots of car mechanics call themselves technicians when they're not.

 

[alx]

It is possibly because I have a lot of experience of smug engineers (real ones).

Most of them seem to think they are all that because they have conned somebody into paying them ££££ to plug models into FLUENT or some other piece of software they don't understand the workings of, and watch what happens

I think diagnosing a fault with a washing machine probably involves more problem solving and intellect than that.

Certainly the chap who comes and fixes my washing machine doesn't have his head remotely as far up his ass as the smug engineers.

Fair enough, you've had a bad experience. Doesn't mean all engineers are like that though.

My personal opinion I'd rather that sky installers weren't called engineers (for example), other than that I'm not too bothered.

It would also be nice if the general public had a better idea of what engineers do (rather than thinking a mechnical engineer is a mechanic) but you can't have everything.

 

[Dinomania]

To my friends back home (who are mainly welders / fitters etc) people who do "poncy computer type work and sit behind a desk" have no right to call themselves an engineer. They actually get really wound up about this - to them, an engineer is someone who works with machinery, and anyone else who calls himself an engineer is just a fraud and a "poser".

Interesting!

But that's why calling people who work with engines 'engineers' isn't strictly wrong. If we called our applied maths/physics/chemistry designers 'ingeniers' then this wouldn't be an issue!

I think you're an engineering mathematician. You're still using it in an applied manner for research and design purposes.

I have no issue with people down the line also being engineers, of a kind - but there is a gulf between the work of an R&D engineer and a maintenance engineer.

 

[cm1179]

I have no issue with people down the line also being engineers, of a kind - but there is a gulf between the work of an R&D engineer and a maintenance engineer.

there is indeed a gulf and the word engineer is one earnt out of respect as much as it is academically. ie a sky tv 'engineer' mucks up, what's the worst that can happen? you miss out on a bit of garbage tv! a comms engineer mucks up, what's the worst that can happen? the air strike goes wrong. a structural engineer mucks up, what's the worst that can happen? people get crushed.

 

[quickshot89]

Engineers arent as well paid here because they are under valued, this is highlighted by people associating technicians with engineers.

Im not so sure on that, when i did my placement at siemens the guys were pretty well paid, even the graduate engineers where on a lot of money.

 

[Windle]

Interesting!

But that's why calling people who work with engines 'engineers' isn't strictly wrong. If we called our applied maths/physics/chemistry designers 'ingeniers' then this wouldn't be an issue!

I think you're an engineering mathematician. You're still using it in an applied manner for research and design purposes.

I have no issue with people down the line also being engineers, of a kind - but there is a gulf between the work of an R&D engineer and a maintenance engineer.

Indeed, the very definition of an engineer comes from Engine.

en·gi·neer   
noun

1.a person trained and skilled in the design, construction, and use of engines or machines, or in any of various branches of engineering: a mechanical engineer; a civil engineer.

2.a person who operates or is in charge of an engine.

3.Also called locomotive engineer.Railroads. a person who operates or is in charge of a locomotive.

4.a member of an army, navy, or air forc especially trained in engineering work.

5.a skillful manager: a political engineer.

en·gi·neer·ing  

noun

1
.the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences,as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines,bridges,buildings,mines,ships,and chemical plants.

2.the action,work,or profession of an engineer.

3.skillful or artful contrivance;maneuvering.

 

[ubersonic]

Connecting telephone cables and installing virgin media is Not engineering.

Actually it is, I think this is part of the problem when people hear engineer they seem to think of people like Brunel building bridges, that was massive engineering in those times but in all honesty it is child's play compared to the engineering that goes into the latest Intel processor.

A software engineer is worthy of the title as they have to engineer a program by building/creating thousands of lines of code, a heating and ventilation engineer (a proper one not a plumber with nice business cards) is worthy of the title as they have to engineer solutions to problems and scratch design systems for entire buildings using formulas and the like that would make Brunel wet himself.

I once had the title communications engineer and I had no problem with it as it was very apt. I took a couple of A0 sheets with lines on them and planned out entire network/telecommunications layouts for buildings that would work, and when the builders loused everything up I revised them to ensure they still worked.

Engineering isn't just designing bridges or stream trains, there's loads of jobs where the word fits even if some are deemed "better" than others.

 

[Westyfield2]

IIRC the definition of engineering is "The application of science and mathematics to the design and construction of artefacts which are useful to humanity."


My degree is Software Engineering BSc. Usually I'd say that to call themselves an 'Engineer' they should have an MEng in Mechanical/Chemical/etc, but I think I'll make an exception for myself .

 

[ubersonic]

Indeed, the very definition of an engineer comes from Engine.

/snip

en·gi·neer·ing  

noun

1
.the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences,as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines,bridges,buildings,mines,ships,and chemical plants.

2.the action,work,or profession of an engineer.

3.skillful or artful contrivance;maneuvering.

Your reading it wrong, look:

the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences,as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines,bridges,buildings,mines,ships,and chemical plants.

This part is the meaning:

the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences,as physics or chemistry,

This part is examples of the meaning:

as in the construction of engines,bridges,buildings,mines,ships,and chemical plants.

This being the 21st century the are many more examples of the meaning, i.e software engineer, refrigeration engineer, neither of which had even been imagined when the term engineering came into being.

 

[Windle]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Made me chuckle, if mostly for the biologist with his cephalopod.

 

[Antar Bolaeisk]

Engineer (mechatronics) here and it bugs the hell out of me when technicians are given the title engineer.

 

[-Ad-]

Going by all the views and ideas of many non-engineers on here I guess I've been told.

Oh well, all these English people moaning about something they don't understand must be right.

Yay for GD!

 

[Lew]

I work for Sky and Job role Is "Sky Engineer" I never refer to myself as an Engineer because I'm not, just a part of Supply chain. Really should be Installations team although it can be more involved than just fitting a dish.

 

[jack.mitchell]

I've a degree in Engineering and currently work as an engineer (Embedded Systems). If someone asks I say I'm working as an embedded systems engineer, however I would currently class myself as a Junior Engineer. I've only been out of Uni 6 months and I firmly believe that engineering comes through experience, so unless I start managing projects or have some high level input to important projects I'll count myself a Junior for some time yet.

I'm looking into starting early at my path towards chartered but I'm not sure how well regarded it actually is in the industry.

 

[Hedge]

This does bother you lol, You used to bring it up when I was a Gas Engineer and you musta raised it on here a bunch of times .

Ya just have a superiority complex, the word Engineer has just become diluted over the years, much to the dislike of you top end folk

 

[RomanNose]

I guess this might annoy me in the future, will hopefully be splashing out on over 50k for 4 years of MEng. Even if you say "Electronic engineer", mr joe blogs will still probably think as you as being the washing machine guy.

 

[KaHn]

This does bother you lol, You used to bring it up when I was a Gas Engineer and you musta raised it on here a bunch of times .

Ya just have a superiority complex, the word Engineer has just become diluted over the years, much to the dislike of you top end folk

Just checked back over threads and I have never started a thread on here regarding this, I might have stated my opinion few times. Also that what when I was still at uni and I've said before it used to bother me a lot more when I was a student.

But as you said the word has become diluted from people like the council calling everyone engineers from bin cleaners to plumbers

KaHn

 

[Hedge]

To be honest I think "Proper" engineers mingle in circles where everyone knows what it is they do, if they dont, then they will take pleasure in telling them.

Many words in our language change meaning over time, people shouldnt be offended. Someone who needs to design a structure and test it will appoint a suitably qualified Engineer. They wont accidently phone up a Telephone "engineer" and be annoyed when the job doesnt work out.

I cant understand how it has any detrimental affect on the job in question. I think even the most dumb people know a Structural, Aeronautical or Aerospace prefix sets them apart from Telephone, Gas or IT.

Try and make the word Super Engineer become the norm

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

I get a bit cheesed off when people call themselves an engineer when they aren't, but as other have mentioned in isn't worth losing sleep over!
I got a 1st clss in manufacturing engineering BEng at Loughborough. Just started doing a PhD in it now (well sustainable manufacturing - Processes in factories is my area).

The best one I have heard is....
Muppet: I got a 1st class in motorsport engineering from Birmingham University.
Me: Cool, BEng or MEng?
Muppet: Bsc
Me: Eh? You said you just graduated in engineering
Muppet: Yeah I got a Bsc in motorsport engineering from Birmingham City
Me: So you got a Bsc from Birmingham City in motorsport technology, not a BEng in motorsport engineering from Birmingham. BIG difference.

The last line I said in my head, not out loud!