England and Wales are no longer Christian nations...

Efour said:
Then those with the strong culture religion will start to dictate more need for their religious nonsense, which they'll get because I'm an atheist I don't care, then you culturally shift to that. No bacon.
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Literally the only good thing about Islam is they don't torture pigs for food.... shame about all the suicide bombings though.
 
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Efour said:
All the evidence we need to prove Allah exists is found in the Qur'an. It was literally given to Profit Mohamed (pbuh) by god.
It says it right there. Are you blind maybe?
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One: that is a circular argument.
Two: actually the origins of the Koran are only vaguely known. Anyone who tells you different is a fundamentalist who probably knows nothing about the origin of the Koran. Same as the Bible before anyone jumps in with that.
Three: thanks for demonstrating the difference between faith and reason. And why the latter beats the former.
 
Meridian said:
One: that is a circular argument.
Two: actually the origins of the Koran are only vaguely known. Anyone who tells you different is a fundamentalist who probably knows nothing about the origin of the Koran. Same as the Bible before anyone jumps in with that.
Three: thanks for demonstrating the difference between faith and reason. And why the latter beats the former.
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This is a very common issue for infidels.
Allow me to explain so you can see where you are completely wrong.

How Can We Prove That Allah Is Real?

Many of us struggle with issues of faith, especially when our outlook is challenged by others. Finding Allah is a personal journey, especially in a time where the Proof of Allah (af) is in occultation, and most of us cannot access the Qur'an in its original language and have trouble understanding its meanings without dedicating time to study them. This video answers an important question that many of us may ask ourselves.

Zoheir Ali Esmail
English
French
'Audhu bi-Llahi al-Sami' al-'Alim, min al-shaytan al-rajeem, Bismillah, Al-Rahman Al-Rahim, wa salla-Llahu 'aala sayyidina Muhammad, wa 'aala 'aalihi, at-tayibin, at-taahirin. And welcome to these short clips where I try and answer some of the questions that you send in to me.

This week, I had a very interesting conversation with somebody who was struggling with beliefs. And one of the main concerns that they had is that how can they really know that Allah is real? So, this is a question I think that many people are concerned with, that if we live in this world and we cannot sense God.

So, for example, if I ask you about any fact in life, usually there's a kind of proof that you can bring to me, a sensory proof that will that will back up what you're saying. So, for example, if I make a claim that I own a property, then you will ask me for the title deed. If I make a claim that I'm married to a certain person, you will ask me for a marriage certificate.

This is basically how we go about proving things, proving that claims are real. As human beings, we need something sensory, something that we can all accept is a proof for a certain issue. Even if it is a simple argument about which ice cream is better. You'll both go to the shop, you'll both taste the ice cream, and then maybe you'll come to a conclusion about which ice cream is better. But there needs to be a way in which we prove our claims.

There needs to be a way in which we can both - two sides of the argument, if you like, accept the truth of a certain proposition. But the thing is that when we come to our discussion of Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala, Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala is above sensory perception. And the reason for that is that if He was within the realm of sensory perception, what that would mean is that He would have to be limited because senses in their nature can only understand things within a certain spectrum.

So, as we know our hearing, for example, although the sound spectrum is vast, our hearing can only comprehend a certain amount of that spectrum. So senses in themselves are limited from this perspective, that they need limitations in order to work, and that is why-well, one reason why Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala cannot be a sensed object, and especially for human beings, because human beings, they don't even sense the full spectrum of what can be sensed.

Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala can't have any limit on him whatsoever, so He cannot fall into that spectrum at all. So trying to prove or know that Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala is real through our senses is something that is misguided. So when a person tries to ask you for proof for the existence of Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala and they want something sensory, this is something that in itself completely contradicts the concept of God himself.

God is not Somebody who can be sensed because that would mean that He would not be God. He would be a limited being like the rest of us. Maybe a powerful limited being, but He would still be a limited being, and that is not what we mean when we talk about Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala. So with this in mind, how do we know Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala is real?

Well, we can still sense Him, but not with the physical senses, with the senses of the heart. And this is commonly termed as religious experience. It is the sense of Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala, that we receive within our very being. And although we might think that this is something that is not objective but subjective, it is subjective in the sense that it is a person who experiences it, but it is not therefore invalid because it has a level of subjectivity in the sense rather this is the only way to sense Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala, i.e. to sense Him in the metaphysical with our metaphysical aspects.

And it is true that we cannot point to a document or point to something and say this is Allah. But the way to know whether Allah is real or not is to return back to a person's soul, look into that soul deeply, and to then testify to what is deep within that soul, which is a connection with the Almighty.

And that is something that if a person is truly and sincerely seeking to affirm, then Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala affirms that for that person, each in their individual cases. And it's very important that when a person does affirm Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala within their very being, that they don't forget that or that they don't just leave that to one side and ignore it. Rather, when a person senses Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala within their very being, they should understand that they are a holistic being.

They are not just a being that is concerned with the physical world. They are being that has a spiritual dimension and a spiritual and metaphysical aspect to themselves. And with that understanding, they can create the presuppositions that are needed for a rational structure with which to affirm the existence of Allah Subhana wa-Ta'ala , not only within their own experience that they have within but within an intellectual framework. So InshaAllah, I hope this has been useful.

Wa salla-Llahu 'alaa sayyidina Muhammad, wa 'aala 'aalihi, at-tayibin, at-taahirin.
 
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Johno please? said:
Literally the only good thing about Islam is they don't torture pigs for food...
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You do understand how the meat that they do eat is produced (halal)... Right?

We'll just not bring that up and pretend it doesn't happen as it doesn't suit your argument?
 
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Mr Jack said:
Almost all Halal meat (unlike Kosher meat) sold in the UK is stunned pre-slaughter.
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I get that but @Johno please? believes humans shouldn't eat meat at all and that even the "standard" slaughtering process (non-halal etc) is barbaric.... He then states that a good thing about Islam is that they don't "torture pigs" but forgets that they, in his view, "torture" other animals at slaughter.

I was pointing out his idiocy/selective argument.
 
Richie said:
You do understand how the meat that they do eat is produced (halal)... Right?

We'll just not bring that up and pretend it doesn't happen as it doesn't suit your argument?
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Uh huh, you're talking to someone who doesn't consume animal products here, so it wasn't really meant as a serious remark, just a dig at Islam in general.
 
Mr Jack said:
Almost all Halal meat (unlike Kosher meat) sold in the UK is stunned pre-slaughter.
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The stunning process of animals in the UK is still messed up. Pigs are suffocated with gas and suffer, chickens are electrocuted and can miss the 'water bath' if they lift their head at the wrong time, cows being bolt gunned doesnt always work either.

So in reality, halal is a few percent worse. "Humane" slaughter is a myth.
 
Johno please? said:
The stunning process of animals in the UK is still messed up. Pigs are suffocated with gas and suffer, chickens are electrocuted and can miss the 'water bath' if they lift their head at the wrong time, cows being bolt gunned doesnt always work either.
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Failures occur, yes, still a much better end than 99% of animals meet in their natural environment.
 
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