England vs The Netherlands & other International Friendlies ** spoilers ** [29th Feb 2012]
- Thread starter Robbo
- Start date
I'm not expecting much, it's going to be an experimental line up especially up front, I'd be happy with a good positive reaction to al thats gone on recently and a strong 'English' performance. Still have a sneaky suspicion we might nick it we generally do alright in meaningless friendlies.
Indeed and i hope he doesnt get injured as thats the last thing Arsenal need at the moment.
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And my fantasy football squad!
I'm not too fussed about the result as long as the experiment with fresh faces works well. No chance we're gonna win the Euro's so this should be a wise use of time to prepare for the World Cup.
Caporegime
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I'll be watching this just to make sure van Persie doesn't get injured. Not that there's anything I can do about it mind. 
Caporegime
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I'll be watching this just to make sure van Persie doesn't get injured. Not that there's anything I can do about it mind.
There is, if RVP gets injured Arsenal fans need to protest outside the Emirates, demand someone actually looks at his injury properly rather than send him off to get horse placenta rubbed onto whatever injury it is by some quack.
It's really quite embarrassing that as I wrote that I could barely believe it was a real story, yet Arsenal's medical staff actually thought that was a real treatment
Please god don't let RVP get injured, we'll fail to spot the severity of the injury and send him to Egypt to have a siamese cat take a dump on his head to fix him
Apart from it being a treatment that RVP chose to do himself on the recommendation of his fellow Dutch footabll players rather than Arsenal's medical staff, 100% true story. But don't let pesky things like facts get in the way of a rant about Arsenal
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Caporegime
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Apart from it being a treatment that RVP chose to do himself on the recommendation of his fellow Dutch footabll players rather than Arsenal's medical staff, 100% true story. But don't let pesky things like facts get in the way of a rant about Arsenal
Don't let your want to have a go at me for having a go at Arsenal get in the way of the facts.
Did I say it wasn't the players idea, no, however RVP talked to our medical staff who approved the treatment after which he went and had it done. They misread the scans and sent him off for some quack treatment without even looking at his ankle in person.
Please explain where Arsenal's medical staff weren't utterly incompetant(the injury got worse between the time it occured and before getting real treatment as he was walking around and travelling to Serbia) and where I was wrong?
Much as I love RVP, I wouldn't go to RVP or other dutch players for medical advice, nor would I hear about annecdotal crap about horse placenta from a quack in Serbia and rush off to do it. He's a player, he consulted trained medical staff...... who gave him the worst advice possible. RVP did the right thing and the advice he got was laughably poor.
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Again you're 100% right apart from the bits where you're completely wrong.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Persie-seeks-magic-cure-for-ankle-injury.html
He was still under the care of the Dutch FA as he was still on international duty so other than saying it wouldn't cause any further damage (and why would it?) the Arsenal staff had nothing to do with it - I struggle to see how the Arsenal medical staff can be at fault for what the Dutch FA and player do before even returning to the Arsenal set-up!
In fact IIRC I think when it transpired that RVP's injury was worse than initially diagnosed (again by the Dutch FA medical staff) Wenger had a bit of a rant about how international teams don't send players back immediately but rather hold on and treat them then dump them on the team staff.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Persie-seeks-magic-cure-for-ankle-injury.html
He was still under the care of the Dutch FA as he was still on international duty so other than saying it wouldn't cause any further damage (and why would it?) the Arsenal staff had nothing to do with it - I struggle to see how the Arsenal medical staff can be at fault for what the Dutch FA and player do before even returning to the Arsenal set-up!
In fact IIRC I think when it transpired that RVP's injury was worse than initially diagnosed (again by the Dutch FA medical staff) Wenger had a bit of a rant about how international teams don't send players back immediately but rather hold on and treat them then dump them on the team staff.
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Caporegime
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Yeah, unfortunately you're STILL wrong, because you're still claiming things I didn't say and you STILL don't know what you're talking about.
The scans were done where ever the game was, from memory I thought it was Holland but can't recall. The scans were unquestionably seen by Arsenal medical staff and Arsenal medical staff signed off on the treatment, if you think that being on international duty somehow means the next X months of injury treatment gets zero input from club staff you're utterly deluded.
Arsenal medical staff saw the scans, Arsenal medical staff decided it wasn't that bad WITHOUT ACTUALLY SEEING THE PLAYER, then they gave the okay for him to travel, with injury, to god damned Serbia to see a quack doctor. It's quite funny because in your second incorrect rant you managed to highlight the major cause of the problem, how can they be at fault when the player hasn't gone back yet(though I'll add in.... or haven't gone to see the player). They WERE involved and the dutch FA didn't approve the horse placenta treatment Arsenal's medical staff did, and the Arsenal staff after seeing scans but not actually seeing the player or running further scans, let him travel to Serbia rather than rest, get a look at the ankle themselves and probably get a second scan/opinion.
You think Fergie would let Rooney's treatment, should he get a serious injury on England duty outside or inside the UK be completely dictated by the England medical staff and that his own staff aren't consulted, again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
The Dutch FA didn't do anything beyond send him for scans and equally poorly misread the scans from what i've seen.
As for not causing further damage, apparently you know nothing about medicine either, unlike you I can't be arsed trying to find things to back up my story because I know what happened and didn't fly into a thread just to have a go at someone. There are numerous times incorrect treatment leads to a worsening injury. Partial tear's of ligaments left untreated becoming full tears is but one very obvious one.
Another would be Wilshire's bone weakness/ankle pain treated with the fantastic treatment of, ignore it, play on it hard and.. stress fracture. Something that they've since done again by letting him train too much and too early.
Want to go another round?
The scans were done where ever the game was, from memory I thought it was Holland but can't recall. The scans were unquestionably seen by Arsenal medical staff and Arsenal medical staff signed off on the treatment, if you think that being on international duty somehow means the next X months of injury treatment gets zero input from club staff you're utterly deluded.
Arsenal medical staff saw the scans, Arsenal medical staff decided it wasn't that bad WITHOUT ACTUALLY SEEING THE PLAYER, then they gave the okay for him to travel, with injury, to god damned Serbia to see a quack doctor. It's quite funny because in your second incorrect rant you managed to highlight the major cause of the problem, how can they be at fault when the player hasn't gone back yet(though I'll add in.... or haven't gone to see the player). They WERE involved and the dutch FA didn't approve the horse placenta treatment Arsenal's medical staff did, and the Arsenal staff after seeing scans but not actually seeing the player or running further scans, let him travel to Serbia rather than rest, get a look at the ankle themselves and probably get a second scan/opinion.
You think Fergie would let Rooney's treatment, should he get a serious injury on England duty outside or inside the UK be completely dictated by the England medical staff and that his own staff aren't consulted, again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
The Dutch FA didn't do anything beyond send him for scans and equally poorly misread the scans from what i've seen.
As for not causing further damage, apparently you know nothing about medicine either, unlike you I can't be arsed trying to find things to back up my story because I know what happened and didn't fly into a thread just to have a go at someone. There are numerous times incorrect treatment leads to a worsening injury. Partial tear's of ligaments left untreated becoming full tears is but one very obvious one.
Another would be Wilshire's bone weakness/ankle pain treated with the fantastic treatment of, ignore it, play on it hard and.. stress fracture. Something that they've since done again by letting him train too much and too early.
Want to go another round?
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You're just repeating the same nonsense so go ahead
The fact remains Arsenals staff neither suggested, ordered, or sent RVP for his wacky treatment, nor were they responsible for the delay, or the initial misdiagnosis. Apart from that though, spot on! :thumbsup:
The fact remains Arsenals staff neither suggested, ordered, or sent RVP for his wacky treatment, nor were they responsible for the delay, or the initial misdiagnosis. Apart from that though, spot on! :thumbsup:
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Caporegime
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http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-van-persie-free-to-choose-treatment
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-modern-medicine-is-the-best-medicine-
From that one in particular
So before the treatment, RVP phoned Wenger and asked if he could go...... and his medical staff gave the ok........ but the Dutch FA were in charge? Really, because an interview with Wenger, on Arsenal's on site say's you're full of crap.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/van-persie-out-of-action-for-six-weeks
Hmm, after initial care he will fly back to Arsenal to be seen and treated...... after that they changed their minds and allowed him to go elsewhere.
So from Wenger, Arsenal's official website, RVP's call, and Arsenal statements we can see, no treatment was perscribed by the Dutch FA, he was due to come back to the UK to be seen by our staff later that week and then have whatever treatment, but Arsenal decided to, without having yet seen the player, allow him to travel to Serbia to have some quackery done....... and his injury went form 6 weeks to a huge chunk of the season, from a minor ligament tear to a fully ruptured ligament. Yeah, you're bang on, Arsenal staff had no say, no involvement and it was all the Dutch FA's fault... the guys who ran initial scans and nothing else.
Oh, I do like that you edited your last post, it makes it all the funny as I've proved what you said completely wrong, except for Arsenal suggesting the treatment.... SOMETHING I NEVER CLAIMED, but you're wrong on every other count.
Again a thread is derailed because someone has to have a pop at me for no reason, my first post was relatively short AND A ****** JOKE, and you HAD to have a go at me and call me wrong, without knowing what the hell you were talking about.
I've obviously proved you utterly wrong so I won't respond to you on this subject again and I dare say you won't be man enough to admit how clearly and obviously wrong you were.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/-modern-medicine-is-the-best-medicine-
From that one in particular
So before the treatment, RVP phoned Wenger and asked if he could go...... and his medical staff gave the ok........ but the Dutch FA were in charge? Really, because an interview with Wenger, on Arsenal's on site say's you're full of crap.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/van-persie-out-of-action-for-six-weeks
Hmm, after initial care he will fly back to Arsenal to be seen and treated...... after that they changed their minds and allowed him to go elsewhere.
So from Wenger, Arsenal's official website, RVP's call, and Arsenal statements we can see, no treatment was perscribed by the Dutch FA, he was due to come back to the UK to be seen by our staff later that week and then have whatever treatment, but Arsenal decided to, without having yet seen the player, allow him to travel to Serbia to have some quackery done....... and his injury went form 6 weeks to a huge chunk of the season, from a minor ligament tear to a fully ruptured ligament. Yeah, you're bang on, Arsenal staff had no say, no involvement and it was all the Dutch FA's fault... the guys who ran initial scans and nothing else.
Oh, I do like that you edited your last post, it makes it all the funny as I've proved what you said completely wrong, except for Arsenal suggesting the treatment.... SOMETHING I NEVER CLAIMED, but you're wrong on every other count.
Again a thread is derailed because someone has to have a pop at me for no reason, my first post was relatively short AND A ****** JOKE, and you HAD to have a go at me and call me wrong, without knowing what the hell you were talking about.
I've obviously proved you utterly wrong so I won't respond to you on this subject again and I dare say you won't be man enough to admit how clearly and obviously wrong you were.
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Funny that, reading those links gave me the impression that Wenger basically told RvP he was a free man, and able to use whatever treatment he felt he wanted.
Deciding the wacky treatment is no harm isn't the same as approving of it.
EDIT: Rich didn't take this off-topic. You did by using this thread for yet another tiresome pop at Arsenal. And no, it wasn't a funny joke.
Deciding the wacky treatment is no harm isn't the same as approving of it.
EDIT: Rich didn't take this off-topic. You did by using this thread for yet another tiresome pop at Arsenal. And no, it wasn't a funny joke.
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Why do you think he is personally attacking you DM?
Also if the Dutch FA couldn't see the injury would get worse what makes you think the Arsenal medical team would have if they had seen him in person or any medical team for that matter? (Out of curiosity, you might have a good explanation don't take it as a personal attack)
Also if the Dutch FA couldn't see the injury would get worse what makes you think the Arsenal medical team would have if they had seen him in person or any medical team for that matter? (Out of curiosity, you might have a good explanation don't take it as a personal attack)
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DM to get the thread closed before the actual match?
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You're trying to firstly use the word approve in a different way, Arsenal approved THE treatment not OF THE treatment, these are different things. If Wenger told RVP to stay put as the medical team were flying out to see him or to get another doctor and a second opinion and a further scan, RVP would have. Whatever you WANT the quote to say RVP ASKED if he could go and Wenger said yes, this is all I ever claimed, what did Rich claim that Arsenal weren't involved at all.
As for taking this off topic, Rich did and I didn't, also, if a joke is funny or not is irrelevant, so it would seem you are doing the same thing as Rich, using it as an excuse to have a pop at me, again. The treatment likely isn't remotely harmful, unless they have him hopping on his bad ankle while doing it, approving travel to a not top notch medical treatment without ever having seen the ankle IS incompetant.
The thread had, before me, mentioned RVP's injury on several occasions, I also mentioned this. Rich DID NOT mention this but only mentioned me and having a pop at Arsenal again, Rich's post was entirely off topic, mine was entirely on topic, you are posting, for no reason, to have a pop at me.
Lets also point out, I have PROVEN every single one of Rich's points completely incorrect, and his post therefore was off topic about me being wrong..... when I wasn't. Did I post in a thread with utter BS about how someone was wrong taking it completely off topic, no that would be Rich, I merely defended myself and proved I was right. Why you're posting other than to randomly have another pop at me I can't say.
Why do I think he's personally attacking me, because he makes a habit of it and lately a LOT of members have decided to respond to a lot of my posts with a generic "You're wrong because I say so, you always just post to have a go at Arsenal" post, over and over. Look at Weebull's response. I think it wouldn't be unfair to say, no fan, pundit, commentator has defended Arsenal's medical team in the past decade, EVERYONE for months went on about RVP's absolute incompetant treatment at the time. People consistently take a pop at Arsenal's medical staff and joke's about potential injured players not coming back, this is a common occurence and has been for years. So you really have to ask why have two different members decided to defend them(while being proved wrong) while saying I'm the only one to have a pop at them.
As for why the Arsenal team should see it if the dutch Fa don't, firstly and quite simply, one doctor misdiagnosing something doesn't excuse another doctor also misdiagnosing it. Secondly, time very very simply, its incredibly common to rest as much as possible and take another scan, not all but a huge number of injuries involve immediate swelling which frequently makes scans less accurate. Rescanning as the swelling goes down is incredibly common and often gives a much clearer picture.
As a doctor, with your really only top class striker(and with several other strikers injured at that point) I wouldn't rely on either one opinion, first opinion or the initial scans taken, its that simple. Fly out and see the player before sending them to a quack.
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