Epson LS11000/LS12000 Experience + HDMI cable advice

ginjaninja

ginjaninja

ginjaninja

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I am looking to update an old Epson EH-TW3200 to go with a 4090 PC.
Anyone got experience.... pros / cons for this Epson laser? anything else to consider in its price range?

Room is 100% light controlled. Projector is ceiling mounted. Fixed 203cm (Horizontal) 16:9 screen projected from 12.5 feet away.
Will use for 4K/120Hz gaming and 1080P/4K Cinema.

Old HDMI cable is 10M bought in HDMI1.2 days.....Am I recommended to buy a new 48GBs cable? They seem quite pricy...any recommended brands?

Thank you for any feedback/advice.
 
With projectors i would advise to view in person if possible.

I would try to compare that Epson 3LCD with a good laser DLP based projector.

I dont know what DLP model though, there is a cheaper Optoma one that is about £1800 called the UHZ50.
 
I’ve got the 12000b which is fairly similar and very happy in a light controlled room. Mine is 100” screen and something like 5m distance ceiling mounted. I went with an optical hdmi as I had a 10m run also and the cable was being fed into the ceiling so I didn’t want to try something cheaper and find it wouldn’t do the full spec. In the grand scheme of it the cable is cheap compared to projector itself…
 
heeeed said:
I’ve got the 12000b which is fairly similar and very happy in a light controlled room. Mine is 100” screen and something like 5m distance ceiling mounted. I went with an optical hdmi as I had a 10m run also and the cable was being fed into the ceiling so I didn’t want to try something cheaper and find it wouldn’t do the full spec. In the grand scheme of it the cable is cheap compared to projector itself…
Click to expand...
The shop suggested a Sony vpl-xw5000es, i was sorely tempted. I suspect the Sony does have a better picture/black levels but on balance I value the 120hz at 4K of the Epsom, for gaming higher (not because ive been able to demo them side by side...just on faith). They are willing to throw in the non optical version 'included' so i can try it and see how i find it.
 
It might be possible with a 10 non-active cable, although you’ll need to ensure you have good quality one. Cheapo cables are fine for short runs (like 0.5 or 1m), but it’s at the longer lengths is where the fun can begin and the cost cutting starts to show.

You’ve perhaps got a bit more wiggle room with a projector as you won’t be using all the bandwidth since it should show up as a simple 2 channel audio device, so you won’t be sending full 7.1 channel audio.

I’ve been using 10m non-active 2.0 cable for around 4 years now, although I’ve never tried it with higher than 4K HDR 60hz content. I’ve got a few high bitrate demo clips and it happily passes 140mbps with flying colours, but that is below what you could see at 120hz. Depending on access, if you’re having to replace your existing cable it might be worth just going active, for peace of mind and some small degree of future proofing.

Whatever type of cable you get just make sure you test it before you install it. You don’t want to go to the hassle of running it in the roof or under the floor only to find out you have no signal because it has been damaged, was faulty or just not up to the job.
 
i went for the ls12000b in the end. it came with a directional hdmi cable with a usb widget at the projector end (precision bluestream)...which the ls12000b seems to support..

didnt know hdmi was directional or what thd usb widget does..seems to supply power...but why? and will the 4090 at the other end 'like' that power (300mv?)

any ideas?

edit
overclock3d.net

HDMI's latest revision adds "HDMI cable power" to make longer cables possible

Longer HDMI 2.1 cables are on the horizon
overclock3d.net overclock3d.net

are so cable power is a thing...just need to confirm the gpu doesnt mind
 
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The power is just for long cable runs, to minimise any signal loss over the length of the cable.

It’s likely directional as the amplifier was designed to transmit in only one direction. I don’t think you’ll have any issues with your 4090.

I’ve seen a few powered solutions before – I browse the AVSForum now and again and some of the time, work and money that goes into custom builds in the States is mind blowing. Huge themed rooms and equipment in an adjacent room ends up with really long cable runs, so to ensure minimal signal loss en-route to the projector (or video wall!) some sort of powered cable is used.
 
SenTineL said:
The power is just for long cable runs, to minimise any signal loss over the length of the cable.

It’s likely directional as the amplifier was designed to transmit in only one direction. I don’t think you’ll have any issues with your 4090.

I’ve seen a few powered solutions before – I browse the AVSForum now and again and some of the time, work and money that goes into custom builds in the States is mind blowing. Huge themed rooms and equipment in an adjacent room ends up with really long cable runs, so to ensure minimal signal loss en-route to the projector (or video wall!) some sort of powered cable is used.
Click to expand...
thanks, got no response from asus, and was buoyed on by above and gave it a go.
everything seems fine and image is stable at 4K/120.

quite pleased with the 12000b...the brightness is very good so can open windows, let a bit of light in in summer; the fan noise and heat output of laser vs lamp is better; and this is at the default 75% setting for light output.

edit
info for anyone doing a firmware update...that was nerve racking.
the instructions say the indicators will start flashing when upgrade is in progress do not remove power, when update is finished the standby light will be lit
The instructions also say all the indicators will start flashing if the update fails... remove the power cord Epson there will be a repair charge...

updating the firmware gives no quality of life info like current version vs version on usb.
As soon as i hit [update the firmware]...the fan went on full, all the lights started to flash...screen went blank / no pregress indicator...[was thinking oh ****]
but after ~ five minutes the pj powered down..but no blue standby light [was thinking oh ****]
pressed the power on...everything came back to life firmware updated ...******** firmware update procedure and set of instructions ever! almost had a heart attack.

i was on factory default, latest firmware seems important for HDR support.
 
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hit my first problem. The projector cant display the bios screen (only tested by HDMI) ) asus x670e. An alternative monitor on DP works fine...when i look at what windows thinks the device understands it goes down to 800x600...maybe the bios resolution and refresh rate is too low? Ive disabled the IGFX and am using the ports on the NVIDIA gpu.
 
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ginjaninja said:
edit
info for anyone doing a firmware update...that was nerve racking.
the instructions say the indicators will start flashing when upgrade is in progress do not remove power, when update is finished the standby light will be lit
The instructions also say all the indicators will start flashing if the update fails... remove the power cord Epson there will be a repair charge...

updating the firmware gives no quality of life info like current version vs version on usb.
As soon as i hit [update the firmware]...the fan went on full, all the lights started to flash...screen went blank / no pregress indicator...[was thinking oh ****]
but after ~ five minutes the pj powered down..but no blue standby light [was thinking oh ****]
pressed the power on...everything came back to life firmware updated ...******** firmware update procedure and set of instructions ever! almost had a heart attack.
Click to expand...
The firmware update sounds like a brown trouser moment. Glad it worked properly!
 
ginjaninja said:
hit my first problem. The projector cant display the bios screen (only tested by HDMI) ) asus x670e. An alternative monitor on DP works fine...when i look at what windows thinks the device understands it goes down to 800x600...maybe the bios resolution and refresh rate is too low? Ive disabled the IGFX and am using the ports on the NVIDIA gpu.
Click to expand...
I don't honestly know what the default resolution and refresh rate are in bios. Probably 800 x 600 max? That might well be below the minimum rate supported by the PJ. I've certainly never seen bios pop up on mine (or tried to get into it to be fair), but my JVC is really slow to lock onto resolution / refresh rate changes, so no real surprise there.

There should be list of supported resolutions and rates in the manual somewhere, so you can start to narrow it down...
 
SenTineL said:
I don't honestly know what the default resolution and refresh rate are in bios. Probably 800 x 600 max? That might well be below the minimum rate supported by the PJ. I've certainly never seen bios pop up on mine (or tried to get into it to be fair), but my JVC is really slow to lock onto resolution / refresh rate changes, so no real surprise there.

There should be list of supported resolutions and rates in the manual somewhere, so you can start to narrow it down...
Click to expand...
interesting, good to know lack of bios visibility is 'a thing'...if i find a solution will post.
 
Actually, thinking about it again have you got more than just the PJ plugged into the 4090? AFAIK bios will only display on the primary (1st) display device.
 
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Out of curiosity I had a quick check today to see if I could display bios on my PJ and it turns out yes, I can as long as the PJ is set to the primary display device.

Interestingly, it was a 1080p 60Hz signal (confirmed via the PJ and an HDFury Vertex). I found a reddit thread that indicates that resolution / refresh rates in bios are dictated by the GPU manufacturer rather than the brand of GPU, AMD or Nvidia, so the plot thickens...
 
intersting...I'm not sure the "primary device" hypothesis holds (or at least answers it completely) although i suspect primary device has a part to play in terms of which device outputs the bios screen..
...my bios shows on monitor when a monitor is connected to the 4090's DP port but doesnt show on PJ when the PJ is connected via hdmi port on 4090. so on the same 4090 device ..some ports / devices work and some dont..
My bios say the primary device is set to "auto" and i belive if a PCIe GPU (4090) is detected the PCIe GPU (4090) is is primary. Also i have the disabled the iGPU in bios in any case...

I suspect it may be a signal lock on issue...for the 1st time i actually saw the bios logo as the windows hamster wheel whirred....ie in a low resolution prior to OS startup...i perhaps should try with a short cable and see if that changes anything. The PJ is slow to display when resolution is changed in windows...maybe it has trouble "locking on." (quickly) (on low resolutions)..
 
There's certainly something a bit odd going on. Some sort of mismatch of resolution / refresh rate seems most likely. I would have thought the 4090 would be using a rate reported from the PJ EDID list to avoid this very thing.

I've been using DisplayPort to HDMI adapters (2) as the HDMI port on my last couple of cards has been partly obscured by my water cooling setup. I've got an exteral rad and res / pump combo attached to the back of the PC, but unhelpfully it mostly blocks the HDMI port, but not DP. That's not really been an issue for me, but I can't easily test HDMI > PJ (although technically I couldn't anyway as the PJ is plugged into my processor which handles all my sources).

You could give a DP > HDMI adapter. a try I got 2 pack for £12 something and you could return them if they didn't work.
 
I don't think it's 'bad' per se, just a bit slower than you'd like... :)

Based on the tests in the video, if you're waiting to see the post screen before hitting del / f2 then you'll likely miss it most of the time. Just start mashing the keys as soon as you power on! :D

For me, the speed of HDMI lock / handshaking / mode changes are probably the most irritating thing about owning a PJ. They're generally much slower to lock than a TV or monitor.
 
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