European Grand Prix 2016, Baku - Race 8/21

Steampunk · 20 Jun 2016 at 19:27

Just watched this race, and agree it was a borefest. I thought the track would be fun, but in fact the straight is an easy overtaking spot, so that's where everyone overtakes. The rest of the track is tight and risky, so everyone is extra careful and makes little effort because they know the straight is there.

As for Hamilton, it's being reported that it was a technical issue.

But a Mercedes source told Auto Motor und Sport on Monday: "It was our fault. We had incorrectly calibrated the maps."
Senior engineer Andy Shovlin confirmed: "Even we needed a couple of laps to understand what was going on and how to resolve it."
So Lauda now says: "Lewis was in the middle of battle and had a lot more pressure to find the right switch than Nico did."
Not only that, Rosberg's fix was made easier because he actually changed a setting, and was fairly immediately told by Mercedes that something was wrong.
"The FIA allowed us to tell him that something was wrong," Mercedes confirmed. "It was therefore easy for him to conclude that he should go back to the old mode."

Looks like another Mercedes mistake that Rosberg was in a position to fix, and Hamilton wasn't. If the wheels and settings are so complicated you can't trust your driver to use them, then they need to be made better. When Hamilton said he was going to change every setting on the wheel and his engineer said "we wouldn't advise doing that", shows you that those systems are too complicated for the driver to diagnose and reconfigure in the middle of a race, especially without the engineering support of the team in the garage. Make them better, or don't expect the drivers to carry out that kind of function mid-race.

Twirlywoos · 21 Jun 2016 at 00:16

I wonder what Lewis's reaction would be now to this question

this_is_gav · 21 Jun 2016 at 09:22

They should just get rid of the stupidly complicated wheels. If the car goes wrong then they don't finish. Simple, just like the way it always was.

Have a dial with a couple of settings to control electrical power if they really need it, have a another for brake balance (for safety reasons) and sod the rest. No multiple engine maps or 500 mode combinations or diff settings.

CaptainRAVE · 21 Jun 2016 at 09:26

F1 continues to move in the wrong direction in pretty much every way. This weekend encapsulated most of the issues. It is destroying itself.

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2016 at 10:08

this_is_gav said:
They should just get rid of the stupidly complicated wheels. If the car goes wrong then they don't finish. Simple, just like the way it always was.

Have a dial with a couple of settings to control electrical power if they really need it, have a another for brake balance (for safety reasons) and sod the rest. No multiple engine maps or 500 mode combinations or diff settings.

Doesn't sound like the Pinacle of Motorsport?

CaptainRAVE said:
F1 continues to move in the wrong direction in pretty much every way. This weekend encapsulated most of the issues. It is destroying itself.

Unfortunately the record race fee from Azerbajain means it isn't.

Domo · 21 Jun 2016 at 10:13

I dunno Skeeter - less driver aids might make it all interesting again once more. It can still be the Pinnacle of Motorsport. Although in terms of entertainment and excitement F1 is everything but that.

this_is_gav · 21 Jun 2016 at 10:30

Skeeter said:
Doesn't sound like the Pinacle of Motorsport?

Banning traction control, anti-lock brakes, 4-wheel steering and active suspension didn't sound like it either, but we did it for the good of the sport anyway.

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2016 at 10:41

this_is_gav said:
Banning traction control, anti-lock brakes, 4-wheel steering and active suspension didn't sound like it either, but we did it for the good of the sport anyway.

Banning a technology is different to allowing complex, custimosable technology and then banning you from changing any settings on it.

The issue is the incompatability between what the Technical regulations allow and what the Sporting regulations prevent.

Vertigo · 21 Jun 2016 at 11:26

Skeeter said:
Doesn't sound like the Pinacle of Motorsport?

Making a car more technically complicated to operate than the average Airbus is not the "pinnacle of Motorsport".

F1's claim on that title is laughable anyway. WEC is far more deserving these days

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2016 at 11:50

To be fair, WEC has a few questionable rules of its own. You can get penalised for going too fast, for example.

UTmaniac · 21 Jun 2016 at 12:23

Engine modes etc. could all be controlled by the team via Wi-Fi, which would also solve issues where a driver uses modes that the team have previously agreed not to use.

What drivers actually need to adjust themselves is relatively simple, things like brake bias.

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2016 at 13:14

UTmaniac said:
Engine modes etc. could all be controlled by the team via Wi-Fi

Not without a massive and fundimentalt change to the regulations they couldn't.

Transmission of data between the car and the team is, and has always been, strictly one way, with the only exceptions being voice communication over radio, and recently the FIA controlled signals for flags, SC's, DRS, etc.

Steampunk · 21 Jun 2016 at 18:51

Skeeter said:
Not without a massive and fundimentalt change to the regulations they couldn't.

Transmission of data between the car and the team is, and has always been, strictly one way, with the only exceptions being voice communication over radio, and recently the FIA controlled signals for flags, SC's, DRS, etc.

In 2002 (according to my hazy memory and some googling), two way telemetry was allowed so engineers could change settings on the car remotely. Of course, this got banned, but there is a precedent.

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2016 at 19:13

I'd hardly call something being banned a precedent

.

Plus, it would be a bit of a mockery of the system if they ban radio communication under the "drivers will drive the cars alone and unaided" rule, and then allow the teams to change all the car settings remotely!

Steampunk · 21 Jun 2016 at 19:42

Skeeter said:
I'd hardly call something being banned a precedent .

No, I'm saying there is a precedent for having two way telemetry and letting the engineers remotely fiddle with the car. Just like team orders were allowed, then banned, then allowed again, it's just a rule change away.

Skeeter said:
Plus, it would be a bit of a mockery of the system if they ban radio communication under the "drivers will drive the cars alone and unaided" rule, and then allow the teams to change all the car settings remotely!

Yes, but I think there is an interesting question regarding whether the regulation was mean to be about driving the car or providing the technical support for engine faults. The exchanges between Hamilton and his engineer last weekend were not Formula 1's finest hour.

Skeeter · 21 Jun 2016 at 19:51

The regulation has squat to do with any of that. It was a knee jerk over reaction to the insight into the drivers communications that came about through the expanded broadcast of radio messages.

matthab · 23 Jun 2016 at 16:55

Skeeter said:
To be fair, WEC has a few questionable rules of its own. You can get penalised for going too fast, for example.

Isnt that only through a "slow zone" which is put in place for something like an accident?

For me it was summed up brilliantly during the Le Mans by one of the commentators. Racing is a team sport so communication should be freely allowed to allow the team to work as a team...

Anyway I watched most of Le Mans and only watched 4 laps of the F1 before I got bored. The sport is slowly going down hill.

Skeeter · 23 Jun 2016 at 17:46

No, in WEC you have a maximum amount of energy that can be used per lap (its a formula based on a combination of electrical power plus an amount of fuel I think) and if you use more than that in a lap you get a penalty.

The reason why you would use more is because you pushed too hard, i.e. went to fast.

MikeTheNative · 24 Jun 2016 at 15:17

Skeeter said:
No, in WEC you have a maximum amount of energy that can be used per lap (its a formula based on a combination of electrical power plus an amount of fuel I think) and if you use more than that in a lap you get a penalty.

The reason why you would use more is because you pushed too hard, i.e. went to fast.

So kind of like F1's max fuel usage?

Skeeter · 24 Jun 2016 at 16:15

Sort of. But the WEC rules apply to Qualifying too, and in F1 you can turn the wick up and go flat out so long as you then drop it down again to avoid using to much over the race. In WEC every single lap needs to be under the energy limit.