EV future proofing?

bainbridge

bainbridge

bainbridge

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Hi Motors

I'm thinking of getting a charge point installed at our home in readiness for getting an electric car in the fairly distant future, and I'm just trying to weigh up the pros and cons of doing it now, or waiting until we're actually looking at EVs.

I appreciate that the charging technology is progressing, but is it likely that the supply wiring will need changing?

My father in law had a charge point installed last year and I helped him prepare the cable run prior to the installer arriving, and the installer fitted an 18mm cable and a small data cable alongside.

Now, I know that none of us have a crystal ball, but the possible plan is for me to take advantage of an offer through my employer to get a charge point fitted at a reduced cost, and it will just sit there until we get an EV, which could potentially be in summer 2025 after we've renewed our mortgage and we know where we are financially.

I figured that with the huge surge in EV ownership (the demand for both EVs and charge points is currently crazy at the large car leasing company I work for), it might be a good move to get one installed, and if the charger itself needs upgrading at least all the wiring will already be run in.

If anyone does have some knowledge around which direction charge point technology is heading and how this might affect my plan, I'd be interested to know.

Thanks.
 
This is something I've deliberated for sometime, I've finally decided to hold off as by the time I actually get round to buying an EV I'm hoping the technology has progressed enough to confirm I've made the correct decision.

I was worrying that demand when I come to have it installed will have shot up and pricing will be mega but it's something I'm now willing to gamble on as we're currently waiting for a build slot for our new car so am thinking it maybe 7 or 8 years before we think about buying an EV
 
It’s unlikely the core standard will change going forward.

Ask the installer to use cable with a data cable imbedded or install a separate data cable at the same time. The data cable is for CT clamps and should run ideally run to your main incoming supply point. Even if the charger doesn’t need a CT clamp, you may need one in the future (for example you get solar) and adding one later could be disruptive.

6mm cable should be more than fine unless it’s a really long run. Even 4mm cable is fine for a short run.

The main question is tethered or untethered (does it have the cable permanently attached or not) and if you want solar integration or not (you don’t need to have solar installed already). I’d recommend tethered, less faff but usually not as neat.

Whether you do it now or not is up to you really. If you are planning any building works it would be beneficial to get cable runs in place so they can be hidden.
 
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Type 2 is now fairly established and can't see it changing any time soon. 7kwh will be standard for 90% of properties as not too many have a 3 phase supply.

Just can't see the point of you getting one now. What happens if your circumstances change and don't get an EV?
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s unlikely the core standard will change going forward.

Ask the installer to use cable with a data cable imbedded or install a separate data cable at the same time. The data cable is for CT clamps and should run ideally run to your main incoming supply point. Even if the charger doesn’t need a CT clamp, you may need one in the future (for example you get solar) and adding one later could be disruptive.

6mm cable should be more than fine unless it’s a really long run. Even 4mm cable is fine for a short run.

The main question is tethered or untethered (does it have the cable permanently attached or not) and if you want solar integration or not (you don’t need to have solar installed already). I’d recommend tethered, less faff but usually not as neat.

Whether you do it now or not is up to you really. If you are planning any building works it would be beneficial to get cable runs in place so they can be hidden.
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Very useful info, thanks for responding.
 
Kill_Phil said:
Type 2 is now fairly established and can't see it changing any time soon. 7kwh will be standard for 90% of properties as not too many have a 3 phase supply.

Just can't see the point of you getting one now. What happens if your circumstances change and don't get an EV?
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Thanks for the info re cabling.

Questioning whether it's worthwhile is valid. If we get shafted on our mortgage renewal, I'll either try and keep our ageing ICE car on the road or buy another ICE car.

I figured that with the cost of raw materials and labour going up, it might be a smart move to get one installed now, rather than paying a potentially much higher supply and installation cost in the future.

I would also say that if we were to sell the house, a charge point in situ would also be a plus, but we've no plans to sell for a long time yet.
 
NVP said:
Spending money on something you don't need just because it's on sale, especially from a fast evolving market, seems a ridiculous idea to me :confused:
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That's just oversimplifying.

It's not a case of not needing a charge point full stop, but it is, I accept, a case of not needing a charge point yet.

Unless the law changes, from 2030 all new cars will be EVs. Even if we cling on to ICE cars as long as possible, in 10 years time all we'll be able to buy will be an EV (based on buying a 3 year old used car).

So the requirement for a charge point is inevitable, and I'm just toying with the idea of being proactive now.
 
I’d say the main red herring in the room is probably the charger itself. Chargers have to be ‘smart’ which comes with risks for what should be a very long lasting device (the servers could be turned off tomorrow with little recourse).

It’s a rapidly growing segment which is very much in start up mode. There are new entrants coming to the market all the time but chargers themselves can only add so much value. It’s just a boring box on the wall with a fancy contractor in it.

We’ve already seen one manufacturer go bust but fortunately they were acquired by another so the impact on users was minimal but if they were not, all those devices would have lost substantial functionality. Turning into dumb chargers would have been the least worse outcome, they could have been build in a way which they stopped working altogether.

As I said, the market is very much in start up mode, I’d expect there to be consolidation over the longer term with 5-6 major players taking over the market, we already have more than that now. If someone exits the market, the long term support for that device is very much in question.
 
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I would not bother myself,
Sod`s law says that by the time you got an EV it would be much cheaper and faster overall to charge the car elsewhere and home charging becomes expensive and obsolete.
 
dave28 said:
I would not bother myself,
Sod`s law says that by the time you got an EV it would be much cheaper and faster overall to charge the car elsewhere and home charging becomes expensive and obsolete.
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Good point. We currently have lots of customers expressing dissatisfaction with not being able to have a charge point fitted at home, for various reasons: No off street parking, public pathway between their property and driveway etc. So I guess having a driveway at home and a seemingly simple install has been priming me to get one put in.

If the industry does indeed manage to come up with an ultra fast charging solution, it will presumably just be a case of popping to a local filling station and filling up as usual.

Time will tell!
 
dave28 said:
I would not bother myself,
Sod`s law says that by the time you got an EV it would be much cheaper and faster overall to charge the car elsewhere and home charging becomes expensive and obsolete.
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It is unlikely to ever be cheaper to charge away from home. 5% vat vs 20% vat for starters.
 
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Don't bother unless you are getting it done for a very cheap price. Save the money and maybe put it towards solar PV and battery storage (if you don't have it already) as that will benefit you immediately; sound like you are staying put for a good while. :)
 
The physics of delivering the wattage won’t change. Also I think the maximum you can potentially install as AC charger in a home is 11kw. So I don’t think anything you do now will affect that.

What will change is features on the smart charger.

But the EV should have sufficient charging management so it negates the requirement of a smart charger.

So in essence get the cheapest one you can get tbh especially if you think you need an EV in like 6 months time. I think that’s about the lead in for new EVs nowadays as opposed to 12m+

But if you think you will be using solar panels etc then I would hold off as that sector is evolving fast and more and more chargers are becoming solar compatible and thus might drive your decision.
 
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I wouldn't bother, it's a market that going to have some drastic changes as the technology advances if I was you I would look at solar panels or invest the money burning a hole in the pocket. :)
 
I'd just wait until you need it as standards will change and what companies offer will change, for example I can't use a number of the cheap intelligent time of use tariffs on offer because neither my charger (Zappi) or car are compatible, they were not around when I put my charger in but I rushed to get the grant and wanted something that would work well with solar.

There are other techs being trialled, using car as home battery storage etc, this will likely require something else from the EV electric point.

In addition, depending who you are buying the car from in the future, they might fit something for free, so don't waste your money unless you are doing building work where you can prep a run.
 
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bainbridge said:
Hi Motors

I'm thinking of getting a charge point installed at our home in readiness for getting an electric car in the fairly distant future, and I'm just trying to weigh up the pros and cons of doing it now, or waiting until we're actually looking at EVs.

I appreciate that the charging technology is progressing, but is it likely that the supply wiring will need changing?

My father in law had a charge point installed last year and I helped him prepare the cable run prior to the installer arriving, and the installer fitted an 18mm cable and a small data cable alongside.

Now, I know that none of us have a crystal ball, but the possible plan is for me to take advantage of an offer through my employer to get a charge point fitted at a reduced cost, and it will just sit there until we get an EV, which could potentially be in summer 2025 after we've renewed our mortgage and we know where we are financially.

I figured that with the huge surge in EV ownership (the demand for both EVs and charge points is currently crazy at the large car leasing company I work for), it might be a good move to get one installed, and if the charger itself needs upgrading at least all the wiring will already be run in.

If anyone does have some knowledge around which direction charge point technology is heading and how this might affect my plan, I'd be interested to know.

Thanks.
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install it when you need it. what is the point in doing it now. the tech will only get better and if I had to bet the price do down as more people get qualified to do the install.

had I got my car from a main dealer (and I almost did...... the only reason I didn't was the exact spec I wanted popped up elsewhere).. but marshal's jaguar at the moment are installing a free pod point charger for every EV they sell. (new or 2nd hand)
 
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You'll be using up warranty period on the charger too when it's not needed yet... something to consider.

I got a charger installed in August because I had ordered an EV and while it wasn't arriving for another 7-8 months the company was running a special deal on the charger I wanted. Saved me a few hundred quid but also means it was sitting unused and quietly whittling away the warranty period without even knowing if it worked properly in the first place!

Chargers don't ultimately have to be smart - most cars have scheduling built in so while my charger does have the option for smarter stuff in reality it just operates in dumb mode and the car controls when it charges. I've found the solar integration less than optimal so don't really use it even though it's there - last month or two where I've had excess generation I've switched to flux which means I'm financially better off charging the car overnight and selling the solar excess as export which really simplifies things and renders solar charging with all it's pitfalls and issues irrelevant.

The one caveat to not actually needing a smart charger I would say is that it's probably quite useful to get one that works with octopus intelligent as not many do - to get on the tariff you need either your car or the charger to be compatible, and it's a great tariff with better rates and longer off peak periods than normal octopus Go. Without knowing whether your future car will/will not be compatible if you at least get a charger that's compatible then you'll know the tariff should be available regardless of your car choice.
 
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2/3 years out vehicle to grid / bidirectional charger is another potential item for shopping list (when manufacturers resolve impact on battery warranty)

to wit - https://www.indra.co.uk/v2g/
At Indra we have developed the first domestic Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) charger – an intelligent charging unit that channels energy in both directions between the grid, your home (or place of work) and your vehicle. Currently in beta trials, our Vehicle-to-Grid technology is a game changer for enabling electric car and van (EV) owners to manage their energy use and reduce their energy costs
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