EV general discussion

jonneymendoza said:
Of course you can. But the way you imply is that you assume we can just pour hydro into an existing petrol tank...

Nope u don't. Of course there needs to be some adjustments but that for the experts to work on, not u and I.

Not everyone charging there cars is true but some will and that will have an additional load on the power grid which was my point..

I did say weight was a bonus.

Ev was a good concept too and look where we are?
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Ok, I'll assume you have no concept of how to handle, store and transfer hydrogen on the scales you'd need for mass transit adoption. Hint: there's a reason it has to be kept as cold as the universe and at stupidly high pressure.

Have you done any research into what our national grid can currently handle and whether any changes would need to be made to it, or are you just assuming it can't in it's current state?

Yes, it is a good concept and I like driving my Polestar 2. Your point?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Of course you can. But the way you imply is that you assume we can just pour hydro into an existing petrol tank...

Nope u don't. Of course there needs to be some adjustments but that for the experts to work on, not u and I.

Not everyone charging there cars is true but some will and that will have an additional load on the power grid which was my point..

I did say weight was a bonus.

Ev was a good concept too and look where we are?
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Have you googled hydrogen cars, it comes up with all the reasons why a hydrogen car has been discounted as a viable alternative to EVs
 
Penfold101 said:
Ok, I'll assume you have no concept of how to handle, store and transfer hydrogen on the scales you'd need for mass transit adoption. Hint: there's a reason it has to be kept as cold as the universe and at stupidly high pressure.

Have you done any research into what our national grid can currently handle and whether any changes would need to be made to it, or are you just assuming it can't in it's current state?

Yes, it is a good concept and I like driving my Polestar 2. Your point?
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No. I would need to research more about it.

But from what you know, are you saying that if the brainiest humans on earth was to look into hydro fuel, they won't be able come up with solutions to these problems?
 
Penfold101 said:
Ok, I'll assume you have no concept of how to handle, store and transfer hydrogen on the scales you'd need for mass transit adoption. Hint: there's a reason it has to be kept as cold as the universe and at stupidly high pressure.

Have you done any research into what our national grid can currently handle and whether any changes would need to be made to it, or are you just assuming it can't in it's current state?

Yes, it is a good concept and I like driving my Polestar 2. Your point?
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My point is eV had issues as well and look where we are today.
 
jonneymendoza said:
No. I would need to research more about it.

But from what you know, are you saying that if the brainiest humans on earth was to look into hydro fuel, they won't be able come up with solutions to these problems?
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It's not a question of solutions - there are always ways to overcome these problems.

The question is whether it's worth the effort and who's going to pay for it.
 
@jonneymendoza
I was genuinely curious as to why you were anti EV and pro hydrogen. So thanks for sharing and sorry if it caused a pile on!
Hydrogen will for sure be a solution but not for passenger cars in the near term. There are quite a few issues
1. I don't see anyone talking about converting cars to run on hydrogen - e-fuels are plausible.
2. There is really no infrastructure for distributing hydrogen - converting petrol stations is plausible but not straightforward due to the pressurisation and environmental controls required
3. Hydrogen is quite straightforward to make but making green hydrogen is less so - electrolysis of h20 would require generation of green electricity to be net zero and not many people are doing this yet
4. Natural gas reforming still produces CO2 in the process of extracting the hydrogen which is bad.
5. If you think EVs burn hard then I suspect hydrogen cars might be worse.

Commercial vehicles and hgv's might be a better application for the tech as the payloads aren't really conducive to battery power within the current tech constraints.
The industry has pretty much bet the farm on EVs in the mid term and whilst hydrogen is being developed its not getting anything like the investment that battery tech is getting.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Its not perfect but with the right brains it could be improved.
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Not really no, this is not a technology problem, it’s the physics of moving hydrogen from liquid to a gas and from low pressure to high pressure.

It’s not something that is a feature of hydrogen cars either. Its a well known physics issue that applies to any gas including the existing fossil fuels like propane and methane used every day.

jonneymendoza said:
I assumed you and others also had the same reservations with ev saying how batteries are inefficient, dangerous and take a day to charge etc etc but look where we are now.

Ev can charge in 30 mins fast charge or less?
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From 10-80%, Yes. Newer models it is closer to 20.
jonneymendoza said:
Ev are efficient and y can get around 300 miles on it at average?
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Yes, even less premium models are getting close to 300 miles and for the vast majority of people, this range is entirely unnecessary.

Do bear in mind 300 miles is 5.5 to 6 hours of driving in the real world and you are talking about less than 1% of journeys at this point.
jonneymendoza said:
Just like ev, we as humans could if we was bothered to address all of the stuff you have highlighted
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It’s really not that simple.

Likewise you can’t just retrofit existing filling stations with hydrogen, it’s a complete infrastructure rebuild. The only common denominator is the convenience store. It’s cheaper to build EV chargers.

Have you looked up the cost of hydrogen? It’s more expensive than petrol and diesel, half of which is made up of tax. Thats the core reason as to why it’s no longer being invested in. Before you consider tax, the cost to fuel a hydrogen car is twice the price of ICE.

We already know EV is cheaper than ICE.

Calpol said:
4. Natural gas reforming still produces CO2 in the process of extracting the hydrogen which is bad.
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Just on this point, this process releases more carbon than burning petrol and diesel in an ICE. It would be net negative for climate change, it would be only better for local air quality.
 
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jonneymendoza said:
No. I would need to research more about it.

But from what you know, are you saying that if the brainiest humans on earth was to look into hydro fuel, they won't be able come up with solutions to these problems?
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No matter what the brainiest person in the world says, it's the cost that will be the dictating force.
$30+ kg in california and €15ish per kg in Germany- with subsidies from the government.
 
I find it frankly hilarious that people think electricity is hard to make and distribute easily.
The only common thing between the way that hydrogen based vehicles and current ICE cars would be the same in refuelling at a pump that isn't anywhere near the same.

We literally have an entire distribution network of wires and pylons, and poles delivering electricity that is produced from many varied sources, and for the most part pushing that all into this distribution network. It's not harder to modify the ends of that network than in would be to create an entirety new distribution and containment system, not to mention generation.

People seem to be confusing convenience for the end user with ease of creation, distribution and consumption.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I'd ever go back to any sort of combustion based vehicle that requires oil/CO2 heavy fuels. Or forces me to charge regularly anywhere other that at my front door, the convenience is just too much to give up. ;)
 
jonneymendoza said:
But from what you know, are you saying that if the brainiest humans on earth was to look into hydro fuel, they won't be able come up with solutions to these problems?
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The point is not "we can't come up with solutions to the problems", it's "we don't need to come up with solutions to the problems, because we have an alternative". Or in other words, the problem has already been solved. The solution is to not use hydrogen as a vehicle fuel.


Pleasantly surprised with how much the efficiency of my e-Niro has improved over the last week or so with the milder weather. I'm back up to 3.6 mi/kWh+, even though the temperature is only just back into double figures.
 
Journey said:
I find it frankly hilarious that people think electricity is hard to make and distribute easily.
The only common thing between the way that hydrogen based vehicles and current ICE cars would be the same in refuelling at a pump that isn't anywhere near the same.

We literally have an entire distribution network of wires and pylons, and poles delivering electricity that is produced from many varied sources, and for the most part pushing that all into this distribution network. It's not harder to modify the ends of that network than in would be to create an entirety new distribution and containment system, not to mention generation.

People seem to be confusing convenience for the end user with ease of creation, distribution and consumption.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I'd ever go back to any sort of combustion based vehicle that requires oil/CO2 heavy fuels. Or forces me to charge regularly anywhere other that at my front door, the convenience is just too much to give up. ;)
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Having to always think about how much charge the car has, range and where all the charging points are when you plan a journey (and hope they work and aren't busy) is pretty inconvenient tbh.
 
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Why do you need to think about how much charge is in the car? It’s literally full every day when you wake up.

Why do you need to plan journeys to places which you have already been before (which is >99% of journeys)?

If you were traveling to somewhere you’ve never been before, you would quickly have a look the journey ahead of time in an ICE car anyway if you were sensible.
 
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Penfold101 said:
There really isn't any sustainable way I know of that you can get hydrogen that doesn't require electricity to begin with, in which case just use that to power the car...

www.nationalgrid.com

The hydrogen colour spectrum| National Grid Group

From green to pink hydrogen, we reveal the rainbow of hydrogen colours and the different types of technology used to produce each. Here’s our guide to unlocking the current hydrogen colour code.
www.nationalgrid.com www.nationalgrid.com
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Two wrongs don't make a right though and the same argument applies to EV's.

Clearly this country cannot support the production of electricity to support us if we all go EV, let alone everyone converting the heating of their property by heat pump. Here in the UK to support this increased production there is no doubt we will have to build more power stations that is in themselves damaging to the environment and also put in place eco damaging all of the infrastructure to deliver this electricity. Similar then to hydrogen?
One of the other arguments for more power stations is that we will then be no longer be held to ransom by any country run by a despot dictator, LOL, yet we allow Chinese built EV's into the UK undermining our own industry. Which country is China actively funding to be at war?

Then there is the current method of obtaining the necessary metals to support the 'alternative energy sector', which is also damaging our environment exploiting poorer countries in the same way that oil production is doing.

As stated before there is also research currently going on to exploit the sea bed by dredging it in this insane believe that it is 'better' because it will be the lesser of two evils. There is no doubt that this will also damage irretrievably eco systems https://www.theguardian.com/environ...metals-will-destroy-ecosystems-say-scientists

This argument that an EV is also the lesser of two evils, what with being contradictory and hypocritical, we will end paying for it in the future. But please no-one kid themselves it is the saviour of the planet for one moment.
I serious feel that in the future it will be just another mistake similar to when diesels were being indecently promoted in the same manner.

So drive around in an EV, saving the planet LOL...
 
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We have the luxury of two cars and a large driveway. The plan is when my wifes car reaches EOL we'll buy a small EV and have a charger fitted.

My car is a different kettle of fish. I regularly vanish off into the outer reaches of the UK with the car stuffed with camping & photography kit.
I know that I can get 600 miles out of a tank and that I can refill in under 10 mins in almost any place in the UK, a battery EV just wouldn't be suitable.

I'm not a petrol head ( I like the EV driving experience ) but I can see us buying the last ICE car of the production line and running it until I reach EOL
 
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