EV general discussion

[FerretBoy]

Really? Sorry I might've been a bit ignorant as the most in-your-face problems for DIY has been Tesla. Not only do you have to get past firmware to do anything to it meaning people have to take their cars to specialists but instructions are kept under lock and key. And unlike the cars you mentioned: they absolutely hate aftermarket parts. You have to buy OEM. And there are rumours that you can't even buy all the parts for the Cybertruck meaning you could be totally screwed in some instances.

But yeah, was checking out the E-Golf and there's a Youtube video on a full overhaul. I stand corrected!

Are you making this up?

Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla

service.tesla.com

Tesla service mode gives you a ton of diagnostics without even needing a laptop.

Tesla Secret Service Mode | How to access it ?

Use my referral link to purchase a Tesla product and get free credits you can redeem for awards like Supercharging miles, merchandise and accessories.http://...

youtu.be

They also open-source some https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources#open-source

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

Tesla can get fussy if the car has been in a big crash and is removed from the supercharger network, they insist on checking the car over before the re-enable it's access to the supercharger network.

They sell their parts at very reasonable prices. I don't have a cybertruck ofc, but it is new. People on YouTube don't seem to be having issues getting the parts they need...

 

[b0rn2sk8]

@FerretBoy, I was just going to post something similar but you beat me to it. To add to your post…

As well as making the full service manual available for free and the service mode available in the car, they also give access to their dealer level software tools for a reasonable price. You can pay for a days access for a ~£30 I think.

Toolbox

toolbox.tesla.com

The ‘secret’ service mode isn’t a secret either, there is literally a page on their website which explains how to access it.

Service and diagnostic information for independent businesses and individuals involved in the professional maintenance and repair of Tesla vehicles.

service.tesla.com

There is a full parts catalog online:

Parts Catalog

epc.tesla.com

The only things they won’t sell you is a new battery or drive unit. But if you’re doing an out of warranty DIY repair, let’s be honest you are not buying a brand new battery or drive unit for the job. You’d be using a used part.

Tesla don’t code random parts to the car either. You can pull used parts from one car and they’ll work in another. But where you need their software tools, you can just pay for a days access.

There’s whole YouTube channels dedicated to taking them apart and putting them back together.

As for mods, Tesla don’t care. The only thing they won’t do is put back on any stick on tat they need to remove for a warranty job.

I hate to break it to you but you probably picked the wrong car to pick on there.

 

[FerretBoy]

Probably also worth pointing out that you don't even need to service a Tesla in order to keep the warranty. If you choose to service it then they provide guides and parts if you wish to do it yourself.

 

[Alibaba99]

Most ICE cars are typically something you can rebuild thanks to the abundance of parts and knowledge where as the EV market is taking off in a time when a lot of companies design their products to be repaired and maintained by their own specialists or even worse: be non repairable so you have to buy a new one.

It would be nice to see some DIY friendly electrics emerge so people could gain the knowledge and keep their own EV's going but i'm not seeing that from new EV's.

What do you drive that needs constant rebuilding? In the last 12 years of motoring, Saab 9-5 for 9.5yrs and currently a Jaguar XF for 2.5yrs, neither car needed much more than routine servicing. The few extra jobs that the Saab needed weren't things that I could do easily on my drive anyway. In the case of EVs the drivetrain is vastly simpler than an ICE anyway.

When was the last time that you saw someone working on a car on their driveway with a Haynes manual next to them? This was a common sight in the 80s/90s but has just about disappeared to the extent that huge numbers of auto factors have shut down.

I have a hybrid at the moment and I can't see myself going fully electric unless I have to. For longs journeys they just don't charge fast enough. I can still pull up and fill a tank of petrol in less than 5mins and be leaving the forecourt. Even with rapid chargers I can't get that kind of mileage in that amount of time and that ultimately will always be the problem. Until they can provide a similar range for a similar length of stop. That and there is still a woeful lack of charging across the country. My local large supermarket has 4 chargers, 4!. How do they think that is going to work? Every space or at least 50% of the spaces are going to need chargers so that people aren't fighting over them. Sorry it's a great idea and I am fully supportive of the environment but infrastructure has a long way to go.

There are plenty of EVs with a 200 mile+ range which is a good 3-4hrs driving in the UK. Do you really drive for 6-8hrs with nothing but a 5 minute refuelling stop for the car in the middle of the journey? Factor in a couple of coffee / toilet breaks and a meal and you have plenty of time to recharge.

 

[jpaul]

10 years in and the drive unit electronics go awol - you cant rebore the cylinders or over-size the bearings,
ic technology / Moores law those semiconductors won't be in production, or stockpiled (like if your 10yr old laptop or tv gos)
Automotive environment is harsh compared to home, and despite simulated aging with the quanity of mcu's in an ev failure odds multiply.



new enyaq with smaller batteries/range V doesn't seem to be the new more efficient drivetrain though - I thought customers wanted more range not less,
where is the estate.

The new Enyaq 50 and Enyaq 50 Edition models are being added to the SUV range with prices starting from just £36,970. Order books for both new models are now open.

The new Enyaq 50 and Enyaq 50 Edition are fitted with a new 55kWh battery pack that delivers up to 234 and 232 miles of range respectively on the WLTP cycle. The rear-mounted electric motor generates 170PS and 310Nm of torque and can accelerate the Enyaq from 0-62mph in just 9.1 seconds. Top speed is 99mph

 

[bigmike20vt]

indeed. i did 200 miles up the M6 today. arrived at destination with 23% on the battery after leaving on a full charge. my car is now at my folks next door neighbours after they saw me charging on my parents 3 pin plug, and offered me access to their ohme charge point on intelligent octopus

edit I should have quoted Alibaba99 as was responding to his comment about 200 mile range but forgot and my phone is rubbish at editing on quotes.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

10 years in and the drive unit electronics go awol - you cant rebore the cylinders or over-size the bearings,

You aren't doing that in your run of the mil ICE car either. It would cost thousands for that kind of service, if you can find someone who could even do it. You'll only ever do that kind of fix for something really special.

ic technology / Moores law those semiconductors won't be in production, or stockpiled (like if your 10yr old laptop or tv gos)

No, you'd bang in a used part from a crashed car... who is putting a brand new engine in a 10 year old mass produced ICE car? Who is even putting a used engine in a run of the mill ICE car if the old one decides to lunch itself. Oh yes, no ones doing that either unless it's a rare/special car.

Automotive environment is harsh compared to home, and despite simulated aging with the quanity of mcu's in an ev failure odds multiply.

Except they don't, cars have had screens and computers in them for a REALLY LONG TIME. It's not even an EV thing, my 10+ (12?) year old ICE car I had before I bought my first electric car had 2 screens in it and a plethora of electronic control units which controlled literally everything.

Tesla had a specific issue in their early cars because wore out the EMMC storage in the MCU with too much logging. They recalled it and replaced the part with a revised part. That issue is not a trend of modern cars or even Tesla.

Can we stop now?

 

[Journey]

I thought customers wanted more range not less,

You'd be wrong then, I want an Ioniq 6 but for some stupid reason you an only get the 77kWh in the UK, but they sell the 58kWh version in Ireland/Eu and USA (of all places), the smaller battery version also has much more efficient 18" wheels.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

You aren’t a customer either way so stop taking the moral high ground pope. Vatican City much be higher than Everest!

 

[Simon]

You'd be wrong then, I want an Ioniq 6 but for some stupid reason you an only get the 77kWh in the UK, but they sell the 58kWh version in Ireland/Eu and USA (of all places), the smaller battery version also has much more efficient 18" wheels.

Exactly. 140kg lighter. Cheaper and still enough range for most. Bigger battery isn’t always better

 

[Alibaba99]

10 years in and the drive unit electronics go awol - you cant rebore the cylinders or over-size the bearings,
ic technology / Moores law those semiconductors won't be in production, or stockpiled (like if your 10yr old laptop or tv gos)
Automotive environment is harsh compared to home, and despite simulated aging with the quanity of mcu's in an ev failure odds multiply.

A modern ICE car can have upwards of 80 ECUs in it, yet the press isn't full of stories regarding huge numbers of failures of these. The same will be true for EVs.

The most unreliable car I ever owned had precisely zero ECUs in it. Infact, the more complex the car I've owned the more reliable it has been,

 

[[YG]Bug-Eyed]

First big journey (400 mile almost) in the i4, 67kwh version, yesterday from Northumberland to Exmouth. WLTP range is 293.

A good test of its range and the state of chargers on a fairly peak holiday travel Friday afternoon.

Stopped at a fastned charger at a pub near Wigan for quick toilet break. 12 min charge and back on the road. Then stopped at Ionity (also totally empty at 6pm!) opposite West Brom stadium for big charge while we went to McDonald’s for food. Kids ate so slow actually back to 99% when we left after about 40 mins charge. Then arrived at Exmouth on 28%. Thoughts after journey which may help people’s concerns on are BEVs fit for purpose :-

-Could probaly have made the 240 ish miles to WBA Ionity ok without wee stop making it a one stop journey, but had it been full would then have been a faff to find somewhere. Note have shell fuel card through work so prefer to find partner charges as “free” to me.

-Car seemed to get more efficient the further we drove, averaging 3.9 miles/kwh as we left the Ionity charger, but dipped to 3.7 for total journey as put foot down a bit more for rest of journey as knew had plenty “in tank”.

-3.9 m/kwh is 261 miles range, which I think is pretty decent for motorway driving with 2 adults, 2 kids, a large dog who was not happy in footwell, and a boot rammed of stuff.

-Bigger battery version, and the next step in upgrades (they are citing the new 3 series platform will be 30% better range) will make journeys like this very easy.

-both places we stopped at, no issue getting charged, and random checks of places on the way on the sat nav system, seemed similar.

-we never waited for car to charge, it was faster than we were for what would have been normal stopes in an ICE.

-really impressed with the BMW satnav and charger integration, and accuracy on arrivals times, battery forecasts etc.

 

[Simon]

Easy isn’t it. Weight doesn’t make much difference in a motorway for what it worth.

3.9 decent, this warm weather helps. I assume at 70-75mph ?

 

[[YG]Bug-Eyed]

Yep cruise set to 73

 

[OspreyO]

Easy isn’t it. Weight doesn’t make much difference in a motorway for what it worth.

3.9 decent, this warm weather helps. I assume at 70-75mph ?

I found this curious. How can weight not make much difference. It has to. Ifound this for Tesla "10% weight reduction improves fuel economy by 6-8%"

Certainly speed (drag) is going to be bigger factor on motorways and few hills. Very open to wind etc.

"...at it's top speed of 254 MPH, the Bugatti Veyron averages only 3 MPG...."

 

[FerretBoy]

Weight matters less than in ICE cars as the car can regenerate when braking.

 

[Penfold101]

Weight matters less than in ICE cars as the car can regenerate when braking.

Regenerative braking helps offset the energy used in acceleration, to an extent, but for the rest of the journey (cruise on the motorway) the amount of mass you’re hauling around still effects the energy usage at constant speed.

 

[ICDP]

Weight matters less than in ICE cars as the car can regenerate when braking.

Weight does not = significantly more regen and in fact any minor increase in regen due to higher kinetic energy is more than lost on the acceleration phase. It also takes more energy get a heavier vehicle moving and to keep it moving. In physics you never regain more energy than you used.

Weight matters when it comes to efficiency, all else being equal of course. It might only be a few % but as Scotty said in Star Trek, “ya cannae change the laws o physics cap’n”.

 

[Penfold101]

Weight does not = significantly more regen and in fact any minor increase in regen due to higher kinetic energy is more than lost on the acceleration phase. It also takes more energy get a heavier vehicle moving and to keep it moving. In physics you never regain more energy than you used.

Weight matters when it comes to efficiency, all else being equal of course. It might only be a few % but as Scotty said in Star Trek, “ya cannae change the laws o physics cap’n”.

Exactly - which is why towing is so awful for range.

Unless someone thinks you can haul around the Titanic on your roof using no extra electric…

 

[ICDP]

Exactly - which is why towing is so awful for range.

Unless someone thinks you can haul around the Titanic on your roof using no extra electric…

Agreed but when these topics come up I try to keep the drag impact identical. It stops the “but that’s because a caravan increases the drag, not the weight”.

Take a passenger and your impact will be minimal, take 3 adults and suddenly you might see a noticeable impact. Fill your boot with bricks and your efficiency will fall very noticeably.