EV general discussion

Remember, a range extender is very rarely used. BMW use a motorbike engine. Low vibration too - might be a much better application than as the primary drive motor.
 
Spent 3 hours driving the Mini Electric in Oxford today. Was great fun to drive, the indicated range was about 115 miles but the weather was quite bad for some of it and I didn’t drive economically at all. ;)
 
Don't really get the Mini tbh, it's just compromised car based on the ICE version with city car range at decent range pricing, not sure what your are paying for, at least the Honda E tries to be a bit special.
 
It’s exactly the same drivetrain from the i3 so it’s most definitely ‘last gen’. Pretty disappointing for a 2020 car. I’m really surprised no one is able to match the Nero or Kona yet from the mainstream brands.
 
seems national express can see the future as well

"
It’s all aboard for an all-electric future: National Express has bought its last diesel bus and will have a zero-emission UK fleet within 15 years, Chris Johnston writes.

The transport operator said its bus services in areas such as the West Midlands and Dundee will be fully electric in a decade, with long-distance coaches following suit five years after that.

The route from Stansted airport to central London will be the first to switch to electric coaches in a trial.

Chief executive Dean Finch said battery technology provides enough range for the 45-mile journey, and he expects further advances will soon allow for longer distances.

Although electric and hybrid buses cost £150,000 more than the £300,000 price tag for a diesel equivalent, he said they will create savings elsewhere.
"

I had a thought about recharging. For larger vehicles surely its easy to setup so there could be (for example) two circuits. Front and rear so you plug both in. That way not only faster charging, but some redundancy against an issue. So if there was a charging issue for say the rear circuit, the front would still operate on say reduce distance and reduced power.
 
Is this signalling pure EV, or just a move to hybrid?

Hybrid isnt massive news if its the latter, haven't loads of buses been hybrids for quite a few years? I am sure that London buses have been badged as hybrid as i have followed them (been constantly stuck behind them staring at their tailgate).
 
b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s exactly the same drivetrain from the i3 so it’s most definitely ‘last gen’. Pretty disappointing for a 2020 car. I’m really surprised no one is able to match the Nero or Kona yet from the mainstream brands.
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It's not completely the same as they have modified some of the components. The cooling system is an all new water based system instead of the complex refrigerant, heat exchangers, hydraulic pumps etc. on the i3. BMW are planning to use the new Mini designed water cooling system on all their future electric cars. I had lunch yesterday with the Mini Electric production manager and he explained some of the compromises they had to make and reasons why.
 
Indeed. The MINI for example is better if you have a BMW pension - it offers a product with broader appeal and credible margins to sustain a business.

Big problem today exists with migration with existing engine production lines moving to electric drive units, that’s similar for existing EDUs moving to next gen.
 
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ok - seems that was the id3 spec I was remembering

- being churlish - there is maybe a 2nd level to the issue - I had seen comments about at what low temperatures heat pumps in ev's , generally, function...
so the size/efficiency of the heat pump.

https://www.electrive.com/2020/01/23/id-3-to-become-available-for-order-in-april/
The installation of a heat pump helps to save energy in winter conditions and thus indirectly gains range. The Volkswagen specification of 60 kilometres range gain refers to an outside temperature of +5 to -10 degrees Celsius. It is not clear how much customers have to pay for the heat pump in the freely configurable series models. Of the three equipment lines the heat pump is only on board with the maximum equipment for the First Edition presented by VW. And this costs directly 10,000 euros more than the basic equipment of the Edition, namely 50,000 instead of 40,000 euros (in addition there is also the middle equipment line for 46,000 euros). These are still upper price limits. The final prices are still out.
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pcfarrar said:
It's not completely the same as they have modified some of the components. The cooling system is an all new water based system instead of the complex refrigerant, heat exchangers, hydraulic pumps etc. on the i3. BMW are planning to use the new Mini designed water cooling system on all their future electric cars. I had lunch yesterday with the Mini Electric production manager and he explained some of the compromises they had to make and reasons why.
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Thanks for clarifying about the cooling on the mini but it doesn’t really change my point.

While cooling is important, it doesn’t really matter how that works, it only matters that it has enough capacity.

I was more pointing out the battery and charging specs are very 2014/5 and not really fit for purpose in 2020.

I know it all comes down to cost and not cannibalising sales of their ICE versions. They can’t get the cells cheap enough or build enough to make designing a dedicated chassis worth it. The problem is that like the Honda E they’ll feel pretty obsolete before they have even entered the market.
 
Latest tech will be how you manage to offer premium products in the EV world, there is of course no longer a cylinder count progression to help define that.

50kW charging in the mini is 1.5C so not that bad. Original superchargers filling a 100D is a similar charge.
 
I see that the marketing material for the whole range of Mini-E's is rated as 4.0-4.1 mpkWH, I wonder how achievable that is under average conditions across a full 12 month of driving?

I suppose that the £24,400 after grant isn't as high as the could have positioned it, but unless you really want a Mini it's going to be a hard sell against a Zoe Z.E. 50 with much longer range for less cost with a similar specification.
 
Jez said:
Is this signalling pure EV, or just a move to hybrid?

Hybrid isnt massive news if its the latter, haven't loads of buses been hybrids for quite a few years? I am sure that London buses have been badged as hybrid as i have followed them (been constantly stuck behind them staring at their tailgate).
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Its not 100% clear, but when they say "National Express has mapped out it journey towards driving a fully zero-emission bus fleet by 2030 and a zero-emission coach fleet by 2035" I think its fully BEV
 
Interesting that out of the three trim levels for the electric Mini, most orders have been for the highest level, indicating that price isn’t necessarily the issue many think.
 
mjt said:
penchant?
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yes - my spelling was shot - was going for a first on OC.

the only alternative, that a mini was only good value for those with some kind of bmw pension and company reduction, seemed improbable, wouldn't have guessed the real intent.
I'm not sure if Mr Isigaoness (wrong Issigonis) would approve of its descendants, the original was a UK volkswagon.

 
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