EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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Does it come in red, with a yellow roof?
Here some specs about it
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/28/cars/citroen-ami-cheap-electric-car/index.html
so looking at wltp journey profile to calculate 30mile hybrid range , that doesn't look much like my commute, average speed just 30mph,#
guess you need a test-drive of them on your current route.
https://www.vda.de/en/topics/enviro...ug-in-hybrids-and-electric-cars-measured.html
https://theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_WLTP_EffectEU_20141029_0.pdf
Hopefully as they improve battery packs using chemistry that has better Wh/kg you'll end up with a good middle ground for weight vs. extra range, but then there is the efficiency issue.
If you take the newest BMW X5 e45 PHEV, it has a 24kWh pack, but only manages ~40 miles of range, a first Gen Hyundai Ioniq has a 28kWh usable pack, and can do 120-130 miles, and a 64kWH Kona BEV does ~260 miles.
I think the issue is that manufacturers don't really care much about efficiency as long as they hit the CO2 targets (which is unlikely), and as such the PHEV's are a blessing and a curse at the same time. If they bothered to try and be efficient, you could get a car like a Kona with a range of ~80-90 miles on with a 24kWh pack and a small engine, which makes full electric driving for most commutes much less problematic and may even last people 3-4 days without a charge.
I thought that the consensus was that it is more efficient for the engine to directly drive the wheels than to charge an EV system? The i3 rex is fairly uneconomical for example, and hence the layout of the Prius plugin etc.
It is. But the range extender is a 'save me from going flat' option. So you drive it as a BEV 99% of the time - but have an emergency backup incase that charger you were counting on it broken, or you need to go just a bit further than your range will reach.
REx is the opposite of PHEV really, BEV that extends range, vs ICE that has a small(ish) battery and motor.
I am sure there is a great balancing act somewhere that makes sense for both cost, complexity and efficiency.
They are not really the same products if you are treating the REX as that only. An owner of a PHEV is probably expecting to use their engine for a reasonable amount of time, they also tend to have battery capacities which reflect only local use as a BEV.
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It’s likely to be a lighter car than it’s BEV version and benefit from multi speed gears.
Soldato
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Comparing an X5 efficiency to an Ioniq is frankly hilarious. Road load is much higher - forget the driveline.
I think the reason the i3 REX fuel tank is so small is to avoid a proper emissions setup, it would be prohibitively expensive to get that scooter engine compliant otherwise, especially now.
I think the reason the i3 REX fuel tank is so small is to avoid a proper emissions setup, it would be prohibitively expensive to get that scooter engine compliant otherwise, especially now.
BMW no longer make the REx anyway. The new ones have more than double the range of the first ones.
It's hilarious? I was making an example of how efficiency effects useful range of a battery in PHEV, and also used the Kona which is a small SUV... is that still hilarious?
Not entirely sure how you are supposed to show efficiency difference without comparing erm, efficiency.
If you prefer, the Passat GTE does ~28-30 miles on a 13kWh pack, the Ioniq does quadruple that on a pack just over double the size. Let's not forget we are talking efficiency here. In case you forget that look at the last paragraph I wrote.
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I see your argument but both cars including the Kona are tiny compared to the X5 - which is also 4WD. Also don’t compare installed capacity and raw mileage, PHEV power demands means you don’t use anywhere the depth of discharge as a BEV to avoid cell ageing. The X5 motor is as powerful as the Kona. That’s power efficiency PHEV packs have to be tuned for.
Again Passat is a segment or so above that of an Ioniq.
The ionic rolls round on roller-skates compared to the monster truck wheels in the X5. Then factor in the huge frontal area different and worse drag coefficient on the X5...
The person who said it was hilarious is spot on.
Even the Passat is a much bigger car. Something else to consider is that the ionic can only tow 750kg compared to the Passat which will go up to 2200kg. There is going to be big differences under the hood to cater for that which will hard efficiency.
There is going to be way bigger drive train losses on a PHEV than there is a BEV just because of the way they work, think about it.
The person who said it was hilarious is spot on.
Even the Passat is a much bigger car. Something else to consider is that the ionic can only tow 750kg compared to the Passat which will go up to 2200kg. There is going to be big differences under the hood to cater for that which will hard efficiency.
There is going to be way bigger drive train losses on a PHEV than there is a BEV just because of the way they work, think about it.
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Quite liking the look of the Ford Mustang Mach E, GT version might be interesting. 
You can easily get 160 miles on the Ioniq BEV in mild weather, I used the lower winter figures.