EV general discussion

[bigmike20vt]

2 out of 2 slots were taken at the place we stopped,

now i am not saying you should have to do this, but here is the error imo. if you know you absolutely have to charge (rather than a "oh look there is a charge point i will stick some juice in whilst i go for a coffee") you dont stop at a services with only 2 charging stations

if i know i have to charge on my route (happened 3 or 4 times in 18 months for me) i make sure i do it at a major charging hub, so depending on where i am, somewhere like Rugby, Exeter or Trentham Gardens***.

*** in the interests of honesty one of those times above, i did stop at Trentham gardens and......... by pure bad luck, all the new tesla charging bays were out of action. This is incredibly rare for tesla to have this happen. it sucked but was just unlucky. of course the trick is not to stop when you are on fumes (sometimes petrol stations can run out of fuel as well.

 

[Penfold101]

People in flats can't charge their ev at home! Neither can they fill up with petrol at home.

Thats not the point. The point is that EV ownership is only really attractive if it costs at least the same as, but preferably less, than ICE. If you can’t charge at home, and HAVE to use public charging, then it can be up to twice as expensive as running a diesel. Given that the main reason people want to switch is cheap running costs, no-one who has to rely on public charging is going to switch till that massively comes down in price.

In a nutshell - can’t charge at home on a cheap tariff = no point in having an EV.

 

[Shadowness]

@bigmike20vt that's fair. He just searched for charging spots along the route back home, and this one came up. Fast, decent value but only 2 slots. And to be fair, the app/map did say they were both taken. We just tried our luck that it might be wrong/not updated.

Where we eventually charged was at a bank of brand new chargers at an existing BP garage, also on route. It was pretty effortless to get it up and running, and seemed pretty fast. We were only there for about 10 mins or less, which gave him enough range to drop me off and get home (another 60 miles or so). But I'm sure he said it cost about £20 or so for even that!

(90p per kwh, and I think he got just over 20kw, as he was averaging about 2.5 kwh/mile) <--- might be wrong, but those were roughly the numbers he told me. He did seem like that guy from A beautiful Mind for most of the drive! Endlessly doing maths along the route!

 

[Shadowness]

Thats not the point. The point is that EV ownership is only really attractive if it costs at least the same as, but preferably less, than ICE. If you can’t charge at home, and HAVE to use public charging, then it can be up to twice as expensive as running a diesel. Given that the main reason people want to switch is cheap running costs, no-one who has to rely on public charging is going to switch till that massively comes down in price.

In a nutshell - can’t charge at home on a cheap tariff = no point in having an EV.

Plus the time.
Yes you cant fill up with petrol at home (stupid comment btw), but you can in a few minutes probably down the road. And that will give you 'hundreds' of miles of range.

You can't do the same in the same time with an EV, even if there is a charger down the road.

 

[Penfold101]

Plus the time.
Yes you cant fill up with petrol at home (stupid comment btw), but you can in a few minutes probably down the road. And that will give you 'hundreds' of miles of range.

You can't do the same in the same time with an EV, even if there is a charger down the road.

Exactly. It’s a different mindset than using an ICE and can take a bit more thinking about especially when it comes to destination charging, but home charging for daily use is the biggest factor in public uptake.

 

[GhostWKD]

Oh yeh that was the other shock.....the price. Many around 80-90p/kwh. Again, really favours being able to charge at home, and using the stations as a last resort.

I've got a Polestar 2 Performance Pack being delivered this week, can charge at work but been getting ready for its arrival and blown away by the cost of public charging from a quick look. I'm fortunate enough to be able to charge at work but doing due diligence in terms of understanding public charging situation was genuinely surprised by the cost of it. Do see some more reasonably priced (still a bit higher than I'd have guessed beforehand) about 50/60p per kwh but the vast majority at least around the places I checked (local to me and my parents) seems to be around the 90p/kwh mark

Plan is definitely to charge at work 99% of the time but without that perk it certainly wouldn't have made sense for me

 

[OspreyO]

Plus the time.
Yes you cant fill up with petrol at home (stupid comment btw), but you can in a few minutes probably down the road. And that will give you 'hundreds' of miles of range.

You can't do the same in the same time with an EV, even if there is a charger down the road.

Can't say I've ever woken up with a sudden need to do "hundreds" of miles with only enough time for a F1 pitstop.

If thats something you need, on regular basis nothing stopping you buying a diesel with a massive tank. I've friends who do long trips to family or to a boat regularly often unplanned I'd be the first to tell them to buy a diesel.

Not entirely sure why that needs pointing out repeatedly on EV threads.

Same with cheap home charging. It's beyond obvious that's a no brainer.

That said people in an apartments not doing much mileage wanting a low maintenance car have commented previously that lower price public AC chargers suited them fine with an EV.

 

[Shadowness]

Can't say I've ever woken up with a sudden need to do "hundreds" of miles with only enough time for a F1 pitstop.

If thats something you need, on regular basis nothing stopping you buying a diesel with a massive tank. I've friends who do long trips to family or to a boat regularly often unplanned I'd be the first to tell them to buy a diesel.

Not entirely sure why that needs pointing out repeatedly on EV threads.

Not sure where I said I'd need to either

Why would you need a diesel? My 140 only has a range of 300 or so, but I can happily drive to Glasgow if I wanted with only one stop (which would only take minutes).

 

[m4rmite]

Thats not the point. The point is that EV ownership is only really attractive if it costs at least the same as, but preferably less, than ICE. If you can’t charge at home, and HAVE to use public charging, then it can be up to twice as expensive as running a diesel. Given that the main reason people want to switch is cheap running costs, no-one who has to rely on public charging is going to switch till that massively comes down in price.

In a nutshell - can’t charge at home on a cheap tariff = no point in having an EV.

Ionity pass 43pkwh? + £10.50 a month, let's say 1000 miles a month- because everyone knows ice drivers do 10 hour stints to Cornwall and back.
4 miles per kw.
11.8p per mile.

£1.38 litre for diesel, 1000 miles, 50mpg.
12.5p per mile

Now I know some diesels get 2 million miles per gallon on the motorway at 90mph, but at least 50mpg is a figure to compare.

 

[Simon]

with over 1300 pages it is inevitable that the same fears will be posted along with the same counters.... am not sure what sarcastic responses like the one quoted add to anything however.

Wasnt sarcastic. I just don’t know why you waste your time replying to these people who missing out on EV life (with home work charging). An EV relying on public is pointless from cost and the fact you have to leave your car somewhere else and wait. Or collect it later

 

[Penfold101]

Ionity pass 43pkwh? + £10.50 a month, let's say 1000 miles a month- because everyone knows ice drivers do 10 hour stints to Cornwall and back.
4 miles per kw.
11.8p per mile.

£1.38 litre for diesel, 1000 miles, 50mpg.
12.5p per mile

Now I know some diesels get 2 million miles per gallon on the motorway at 90mph, but at least 50mpg is a figure to compare.

Yes, I worked out about 50p per kWh was the break-even point. Most public chargers are way above that, and you’d have to go way less to make switching worth it. Given the general hassle of current public charging I wouldn’t have changed unless I was saving huge amounts.

Given home charging is usually around 7p overnight, it really isn’t worth switching purely to save on running costs unless you pay the 7p rate. I only switched as I wrote off my previous car and needed to buy something so I took the plunge.

 

[OspreyO]

Not sure where I said I'd need to either

Why would you need a diesel? My 140 only has a range of 300 or so, but I can happily drive to Glasgow if I wanted with only one stop (which would only take minutes).

Diesel has greater non stop range per min spent filling.

If you're going to stop anyway even in an ICE then stopping is irrelevant.

 

[OspreyO]

Yes, I worked out about 50p per kWh was the break-even point. Most public chargers are way above that, and you’d have to go way less to make switching worth it. Given the general hassle of current public charging I wouldn’t have changed unless I was saving huge amounts.

Given home charging is usually around 7p overnight, it really isn’t worth switching purely to save on running costs unless you pay the 7p rate. I only switched as I wrote off my previous car and needed to buy something so I took the plunge.

For me fuel costs were not the main incentive. It's was the easier driving and lower servicing for lots of short urban journeys. Especially in winter. The ICE never had time to warm up. Also being able to fill up at home just so handy.

 

[MrRockliffe]

Also being able to fill up at home just so handy.

That is a strong use case for BEVs but it is an unfortunate reality that not everybody can


And the cost of not is quite high.



The charger by my office, where I would plug my car in if I couldn’t home charge, is 11x more expensive than home charging


That means for 280-300 miles, I’d be paying £60 which is roughly twice as much as my 320d costs for fuel at the moment.



For me personally, BEV works and I’m looking forward to a 2 year trial of it.

 

[Journey]

Why would you need a diesel? My 140 only has a range of 300 or so, but I can happily drive to Glasgow if I wanted with only one stop (which would only take minutes).

TM3LR - 10% - 39% in 7 mins - 4.6mpkWh at 70 MPH - so that's 100 miles in 7 mins, and you can go for a toilet break or get a drink while its doing that, can't do that with ICE. One example, many, many others avialble.

10%	249 kW	3 m 22 s	7.5 kWh
11%	249 kW	3 m 34 s	8.2 kWh
12%	249 kW	3 m 45 s	9.0 kWh
13%	249 kW	3 m 57 s	9.8 kWh
14%	249 kW	4 m 9 s	10.5 kWh
15%	249 kW	4 m 20 s	11.2 kWh
16%	241 kW	4 m 32 s	12.0 kWh
17%	238 kW	4 m 44 s	12.8 kWh
18%	234 kW	4 m 56 s	13.5 kWh
19%	231 kW	5 m 9 s	14.2 kWh
20%	228 kW	5 m 22 s	15.0 kWh
21%	224 kW	5 m 34 s	15.8 kWh
22%	219 kW	5 m 48 s	16.5 kWh
23%	215 kW	6 m 1 s	17.2 kWh
24%	208 kW	6 m 15 s	18.0 kWh
25%	207 kW	6 m 29 s	18.8 kWh
26%	202 kW	6 m 43 s	19.5 kWh
27%	196 kW	6 m 57 s	20.2 kWh
28%	191 kW	7 m 12 s	21.0 kWh
29%	186 kW	7 m 28 s	21.8 kWh
30%	184 kW	7 m 44 s	22.5 kWh
31%	179 kW	8 m 0 s	23.2 kWh
32%	175 kW	8 m 16 s	24.0 kWh
33%	169 kW	8 m 33 s	24.8 kWh
34%	165 kW	8 m 50 s	25.5 kWh
35%	159 kW	9 m 8 s	26.2 kWh
36%	156 kW	9 m 27 s	27.0 kWh
37%	152 kW	9 m 45 s	27.8 kWh
38%	147 kW	10 m 5 s	28.5 kWh
39%	143 kW	10 m 25 s	29.2 kWh

 

[Shadowness]

Forgive my ignorance....what charging rate is that? (is that second column?)

And how realistic is it to receive that rate from most chargers?

 

[Journey]

Forgive my ignorance....what charging rate is that? (is that second column?)

And how realistic is it to receive that rate from most chargers?

It's a Tesla on a Tesla charger, and that is the charging rate in kW. Obviously you aren't going to get that rate if you stop at a 50kW charger, but most Tesla's are now V3 and V4 incoming.

 

[OspreyO]

Not everyone is going to buy a new Tesla.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Not sure where I said I'd need to either

Why would you need a diesel? My 140 only has a range of 300 or so, but I can happily drive to Glasgow if I wanted with only one stop (which would only take minutes).

No one goes to Glasgow happily.

 

[OspreyO]

That is a strong use case for BEVs but it is an unfortunate reality that not everybody can


And the cost of not is quite high.



The charger by my office, where I would plug my car in if I couldn’t home charge, is 11x more expensive than home charging


That means for 280-300 miles, I’d be paying £60 which is roughly twice as much as my 320d costs for fuel at the moment.



For me personally, BEV works and I’m looking forward to a 2 year trial of it.

I can find public charging near me that a third of the cost of filling my petrol car. When I had a diesel it did the twice the range of the petrol. So it would be only slightly more expensive than the Public AC, but needed more servicing.