EV general discussion

chanjy said:
Slightly different questions but do you really think the range claims are realistic in your experience? They are saying 450+ miles from an 85kWh pack
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No, none of them do. It’s a measure against the WLTP test, not the real world. If you drive the test cycle, you’ll get the range.

The general rule of thump is -30% in winter, -20% in summer for UK day time motorway range not exceeding the speed limit.

It’s still a ~300 mile car though which is not to be sniffed at. That can be 6 hours driving in real U.K. daytime traffic.
 
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bigmike20vt said:
i never said saloons were not more efficient, although picking that merc is some massive cherry picking..... I was suggesting that (counter to what i used to believe) SUVs are not inherently inefficient. (but i accept there is a small penalty but just not one which makes them worth the hate a lot of people give them imo)
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IMO the problem with SUVs (or more accurately the crappy "crossovers" that most people think of as SUVs these days) is that they aren't actually that practical; most of them are essentially a hatchback on stilts - they're taller and therefore both less aerodynamic and have a higher centre of mavity than the equivalent hatchback, but usually with no increase in internal space to compensate. The only benefit I can really see is that the height potentially makes it easier for people with mobility issues to get in & out.

I've got no issues with "proper" SUVs, with actual rugged off-road capability (not that the vast majority of people who buy them ever need that), and decent cargo space.

bigmike20vt said:
i agree some SUVs are bought for fashion statements. i doubt that many brand new range rovers you see in london do much work on the farm..... but i doubt anyone buys a 2020 kia niro as a fashion statement!. (that era of e niro is a great vehicle but is fugly imo
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Hah, definitely can't argue with that - although I will admit it has grown on me :p. Not sure I'd class it as an "SUV", although it does certainly fulfil the "hatchback on stilts" criteria!

bigmike20vt said:
I did very nearly buy a brand new MG5 back in the day (due to a ludicrous key worker discount MG offered during covid) but in actual fact it was not as practical as i had hoped.
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Same here, until I test drove the Niro & MG5 back to back, realised the boot on the MG5 was barely any bigger than the Niro, and the Niro was a significantly nicer car to drive (even the older model).

There is definitely a dearth of decent sized EVs at the lower end of the market, even the current crop of "cheap" MPVs (e.g. the various Stellantis passenger vans, and the eNV200) are a bit **** really; a 50kwh battery in something with the aerodynamics of a barn was a bit of a dumb idea, while 75kwh models are starting to come out, they're a few years too late. Hoping the Kia PV5 seriously shakes things up a bit.
 
chanjy said:
Slightly different questions but do you really think the range claims are realistic in your experience? They are saying 450+ miles from an 85kWh pack
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Given you can get 200-220 miles on a 38kWh Ioniq, and Mercedes are making some of the most aerodynamic cars available, I don't see why the 58kWh won't do 330 miles WLTP
 
Mercedes with 85kwh battery should make the additional efficiency at high speed from the duel speed gearbox a marketing point (like heat pump benefit, elsewhere)
they had their cla distance record a few months back too, 800v recharge helped.

[ if box has similar impact to the immotive box, apparently tested in kia

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]
 
Haggisman said:
IMO the problem with SUVs (or more accurately the crappy "crossovers" that most people think of as SUVs these days) is that they aren't actually that practical; most of them are essentially a hatchback on stilts - they're taller and therefore both less aerodynamic and have a higher centre of mavity than the equivalent hatchback, but usually with no increase in internal space to compensate. The only benefit I can really see is that the height potentially makes it easier for people with mobility issues to get in & out.

I've got no issues with "proper" SUVs, with actual rugged off-road capability (not that the vast majority of people who buy them ever need that), and decent cargo space.
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People are buying them in droves though so they obviously tick a lot of peoples boxes. Over three years of loading a child into a car seat certainly makes me wish I didn't have an estate with a sloping roof line.

As for cargo space, it pretty much comes down to whether a cuboid or cube is more practical for you. Overall an estate will probably swallow more things more of the time but I've had plenty of occasions where a bit of extra height to the roof would have been more use than an extra 30 cm in length.
 
The reason people prefer Crossovers is simply they offer easier ingress/egress and loading/unloading of Babies/Shopping etc and they also generally have more interior volume for a larger feeling space.. they generally have a softer ride and will be slightly higher up for better viewing, not to mention being higher up makes travelling sometimes a bit more relaxed..

I prefer SUVs for a lot of those reasons.. I don't like estates as they offer the worst of all worlds for me, no improvement in ingress/egress/loading, a smaller cabin, less additional storage (most SUVs have extra storage provided for family life) and you are lugging all that extra weight/heft around for 99% of the you don't need need the load space, at least in an SUV I get more passenger space and a more relaxed drive even when not lugging anything around.. Horses of courses, people are welcome to have the entirely opposite set of requirements and prefer Estates with zero reasons to need or require anything taller..
 
No question the lines are blurring between what an SUV actually is and other variants like crossovers. Even the Polestar 4 while marketed as an SUV still has that low slung coupe look about it not traditionally found in an SUV. With cars like this and I guess the BMW iX as an example is that as an EV, the boot capacity is still not as big as I would expect given the size of car (again, batteries!) and is still effectively the same capacity as my S4 Avant. I guess in the iX example, more internal space has been allocated to the cabin for a more premium/plush/comfy environment
 
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cokecan said:
No question the lines are blurring between what an SUV actually is and other variants like crossovers. Even the Polestar 4 while marketed as an SUV still has that low slung coupe look about it not traditionally found in an SUV. With cars like this and I guess the BMW iX as an example is that as an EV, the boot capacity is still not as big as I would expect given the size of car (again, batteries!) and is still effectively the same capacity as my S4 Avant. I guess in the iX example, more internal space has been allocated to the cabin for a more premium/plush/comfy environment
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A good point!

My Model Y is the exact same length as a C-Class estate (to the mm), I was parked 4 cars away from someone in B&Q who had bought the exact same two large flatpack outdoor storage units, they could not close their boot fully and commented they hoped I had a bigger car when walking by.. I did panic a little, but put the seats down and the flatpacks fitted in with 5cm to spare! so whilst seats up it might not have the boot floor length, it certainly is still practical for the larger stuff and part of that is simply EV packaging can help..
 
Demon said:
A good point!

My Model Y is the exact same length as a C-Class estate (to the mm), I was parked 4 cars away from someone in B&Q who had bought the exact same two large flatpack outdoor storage units, they could not close their boot fully and commented they hoped I had a bigger car when walking by.. I did panic a little, but put the seats down and the flatpacks fitted in with 5cm to spare! so whilst seats up it might not have the boot floor length, it certainly is still practical for the larger stuff and part of that is simply EV packaging can help..
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Oh good shout! it's not all about just the boot floor. folding the seats down does mean a much bigger load space in many of these cars. It's rare I have to do that so am always thinking about luggage capacity with a child seat in the back too :p
 
cokecan said:
No question the lines are blurring between what an SUV actually is and other variants like crossovers. Even the Polestar 4 while marketed as an SUV still has that low slung coupe look about it not traditionally found in an SUV. With cars like this and I guess the BMW iX as an example is that as an EV, the boot capacity is still not as big as I would expect given the size of car (again, batteries!) and is still effectively the same capacity as my S4 Avant. I guess in the iX example, more internal space has been allocated to the cabin for a more premium/plush/comfy environment
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Problem is they have to make them tall to get all the batteries in. You could have a coupe, but if you actually want some range it will look like an SUV, except still have the interior space of a couple.
 
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m4rmite said:
You sure about the height remark? 1400mm tall
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Yeah... it's not like the Model S is exactly tall either. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples.

Remember this is Nasher you're replying to, who lives in a world where every EV costs £100k+, does 40 miles to a charge, takes 12 hours to actually do that charge, and the battery will need replacing (costing £200k) after 6 months/100 miles (if it doesn't catch fire first!)
 
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I was having a (friendly) argument at work about my polluting SUV jaaaag (all that extra brake dust and tyre wear and think of the children forced down mines ;)

then it went onto SUV hate ...... turned out when we directly compared , whilst of course there were lower cars my hatefully inefficient SUV was actually lower than almost all the other SUVs in the work carpark and really no different than the majority of other cars made in the last 5 years
 
bigmike20vt said:
I was having a (friendly) argument at work about my polluting SUV jaaaag (all that extra brake dust and tyre wear and think of the children forced down mines ;)

then it went onto SUV hate ...... turned out when we directly compared , whilst of course there were lower cars my hatefully inefficient SUV was actually lower than almost all the other SUVs in the work carpark and really no different than the majority of other cars made in the last 5 years
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I find it amusing how many people hate on SUVs and pickups and they don't even know why they are hating on them and/or are highly prejudiced reasons.
 
m4rmite said:
You sure about the height remark? 1400mm tall
p19_0577_a4_rgb.jpg
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Still a big, lane filling car though. Not exactly something to throw around a B road.

Nice cars, but people have batteries replaced on these and the bill is ludicrously expensive (more than a whole used car). So it looks like many will end up being scrapped, unlike past Porsches.
 
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Jonnycoupe said:
They are all still under 8years so how is the bill
Ludicrously expensive?

#dailymash
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You can still see the repair cost even when it's done under warranty...

Once that 8 years is over though, you pay it.

Is anyone going to pay 30k+ to repair a car worth probably 25k by then, probably not. Not even Porsche themselves. Off to auction for "spares or repairs" or junkyard. It's not like they are rare cars.
 
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