EV general discussion

[BigglesPiP]

I assume in Norway it's a lot harder to bypass toll roads and drive all the traffic into rat running.

I can bypass both of those tolls but it adds 30 minutes to a 40 minute drive. It's not dissimilar from the French tolls except you don't have to slow down or stop and it's on regular roads rather than motorways because we have barely any motorways.

I would dislike oddometer systems because of accounting for off-road use.

 

[OspreyO]

Off road quite the fringe use case. What % of your use is off road.

It's going to be in bands similar to road tax. It's not like it will a huge bill or anything.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

This cold weather has nerfed my range down to under 200 miles. Only managed 150 on Thursday. I have had to set it to charge to %90 to make sure I have enough juice for the days driving.

 

[Simon]

I can bypass both of those tolls but it adds 30 minutes to a 40 minute drive. It's not dissimilar from the French tolls except you don't have to slow down or stop and it's on regular roads rather than motorways because we have barely any motorways.

I would dislike oddometer systems because of accounting for off-road use.

I assume you pay tax/duty on the fuel for off road use anyway so I don’t see the difference.

 

[OspreyO]

This cold weather has nerfed my range down to under 200 miles. Only managed 150 on Thursday. I have had to set it to charge to %90 to make sure I have enough juice for the days driving.

Absolutely. I usually charge to 90% upped it 100% this week. I generally turn all the heating up high.

When I bought an EV with a small battery I kinda wanted to prove my theory that I could live with a smaller car + small battery because 99% of our driving is lots of short urban journeys. And in winter that means constantly heating the car from cold. In an ICE car never had time to get warm.

It's kinda worked out. In hindsight something with faster DC and AC charging would have been better for those once in blue moon longer trips. But something bigger for more space in the back and carrying bikes and DIY projects. Maybe a cheap small battery ID4.

 

[Rroff]

and just copy the Norwegian model.

I can't see it working where I live in the south west, the main roads are so fragmented it would be costly to implement and the cost of up keep of the warren of side roads getting traffic they were never designed for would be prohibitive on it being worth it.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Absolutely. I usually charge to 90% upped it 100% this week. I generally turn all the heating up high.

When I bought an EV with a small battery I kinda wanted to prove my theory that I could live with a smaller car + small battery because 99% of our driving is lots of short urban journeys. And in winter that means constantly heating the car from cold. In an ICE car never had time to get warm.

It's kinda worked out. In hindsight something with faster DC and AC charging would have been better for those once in blue moon longer trips. But something bigger for more space in the back and carrying bikes and DIY projects. Maybe a cheap small battery ID4.

Mine has a decent size battery 77kwh I think. I do have the heating on but preheat/Defrost when it’s still connected to the mains. Maybe it’s my driving that needs looking at. Lol

 

[ubersonic]

PHEVs are seeing good growth in China but that seems to be at the expense of ICE rather than people switching away from EVs.

That kinda makes sense as a PHEV has all of the benefits of a BEV but none of the range issues so for all of the people who can't switch to a BEV due to the range issues it's a straight up "best of both worlds" solution.

 

[Journey]

@lordrobs - I can't recall if it was you who mentioned your wife had a Polo but getting a BEV made no financial sense? I mention this as my colleagues wife just chopped her car in at the local VW dealer, a 66-plated Polo with ~45k on it for a 71-plate ID.3 58kWh with 41k on it, total cost was around £1,200, plus they paid for some random coating on the car (no idea why).

Just thought I'd mention it, perhaps a nice Christmas gift you could arrange, assuming she could live with the glossy black plastic and haptic buttons.

 

[jpaul]

That kinda makes sense as a PHEV has all of the benefits of a BEV but none of the range issues so for all of the people who can't switch to a BEV due to the range issues it's a straight up "best of both worlds" solution.

the byd 6 seal saloon estate phev they are selling in eu to beat full bev tarifs, and will soon be sellimg in the UK, now seems a bit of a con 100bhp/120Nm only, if the battery is depleted,
so do need to check how phev will perform in that world.

 

[OspreyO]

That kinda makes sense as a PHEV has all of the benefits of a BEV but none of the range issues so for all of the people who can't switch to a BEV due to the range issues it's a straight up "best of both worlds" solution.

Or it's the worst of both worlds.

 

[lordrobs]

@lordrobs - I can't recall if it was you who mentioned your wife had a Polo but getting a BEV made no financial sense? I mention this as my colleagues wife just chopped her car in at the local VW dealer, a 66-plated Polo with ~45k on it for a 71-plate ID.3 58kWh with 41k on it, total cost was around £1,200, plus they paid for some random coating on the car (no idea why).

Just thought I'd mention it, perhaps a nice Christmas gift you could arrange, assuming she could live with the glossy black plastic and haptic buttons.

Well remembered. She does less than a thousand miles a year at the moment but a car is still essential to run back and forth to her parents who look after our son after school a couple of times a week.

Even at £1000 it still doesn't make financial sense. She is happy with her current car which costs less than £150 per year to fuel, is in the lowest possible VED band (£25/year?) and is cheap to ensure. Even servicing is negligible as I do it myself.

We are pretty certain her next car will be electric but there is no rush to make the swap yet.

I appreciate the thought though.

 

[lordrobs]

Or it's the worst of both worlds.

It really is scenario specific.

I used to counter the pro EV argument of "do you drive 300 miles without stopping?!" with "I often drive 150 miles to a customer, spend a few hours with them then drive 150miles home"

The reality is that nine times out of ten I'll drive 150 miles, have a load of time to kill because I allowed for hold ups that never materialised, then sit having a coffee somewhere for half an hour. An ideal opportunity to top up to make it back home afterwards my appointment.

On the plus side my expenses are simplified while HMRC consider PHEVs the same as ICE for mileage rates.

I'm going to have to push for either a very long range PHEV or EV next time mainly due to BIK and partly due to the fact my business CO2 impact is over 7 tonnes a year (according to a quick AI estimate) which doesn't sit too well if I can offset a bit of that. Not much I can do about the flights though.

the byd 6 seal saloon estate phev they are selling in eu to beat full bev tarifs, and will soon be sellimg in the UK, now seems a bit of a con 100bhp/120Nm only, if the battery is depleted,
so do need to check how phev will perform in that world.

Thankfully 0 miles of EV range doesn't instantly mean 0 battery capacity. Only issue I have with my PHEV is normally on a cold start first thing on a cold morning when I burnt up all the battery the day before. If I can get the battery low enough that it idles the engine and pulls away on the ICE it drives like an absolute dog. Normally doesn't last too long until it has enough capacity to at least set off under electric power and fire up the ICE as it shifts to second or third gear.

 

[OspreyO]

A company car is a whole different thing because it's a different tax regime and that skews the balance sheet. It's mostly that driving the decision not the suitability of the vehicle or fuel.

 

[Kenai]

I'm going to have to push for either a very long range PHEV or EV next time mainly due to BIK

Bear in mind the longer range PHEV BIK benefit is going to vanish in a couple of years, they'll all jump to 18% regardless of their EV range for the 28/29 tax year.

 

[OspreyO]

Statistically it's a minority of people doing a 150 mile journey non stop never mind a 300 mile one. But obviously some people do it.

But are you considering the flip side of that. People who mostly do short journeys, and never do non stop journeys. Because we also exist.

There's also the use case where you want a car for a specific journey you only do one or a handful times of year. And it's bought for that.

Theres also the situation where you only have one car Vs two cars. The one car needs to be more general purpose. Where with two cars you can be more specialised.

After all that you've got to consider running costs, fuel costs, depreciation and market forces. If the market decides white cars are unpopular or popular that might change the finances substantially. At the moment the market and manufacturers are pushing not white but PHEV.

Phev is Jekyll and Hyde. Used right it's good. Used wrong a Non Hybrid ICE might be better or a BEV. Currently they are used as a bit of loophole.

 

[lordrobs]

A company car is a whole different thing because it's a different tax regime and that skews the balance sheet. It's mostly that driving the decision not the suitability of the vehicle or fuel.

That's very true.

Bear in mind the longer range PHEV BIK benefit is going to vanish in a couple of years, they'll all jump to 18% regardless of their EV range for the 28/29 tax year.

Good point I'd completely forgotten that.

But are you considering the flip side of that. People who mostly do short journeys, and never do non stop journeys. Because we also exist.

Absolutely. I'm not anti PHEV at all.

As a dirty company car driver who is only in it for the BIK even I've cut my personal fuel use by approximately 75% with a PHEV. That is over a ton of exhaust pipe CO2 saved.

 

[OspreyO]

Phev is great if used right. But it's a narrow tipping point where daily range fits in a small phev battery that you charge all the time versus have to charge on a long journey in a BEV a few times or are so remote to have few charging options or it's a pain to do so.

I think if so many dislike the whole charging thing that it puts them off a BEV they'll never do it with a PHEV. A non hybrid ICE might just be better for them.

But I'm bias because I'm not doing the journeys that a phev might be ideal for.

 

[nsmalley]

IMO Phev's are useful if you dont have a driveway or cant charge from home. Even then, the weight and "things to go wrong" penalty is greatly increased as you have to lug two drivetrains, engines and gubbins to make them work. E.g When on fossil fuel you are pulling batteries, motors and inverters around with no benefit, and when on battery you are pulling all the internal combustion stuff around.

So yes, if you cant charge from home Phev's do have a place, but with ever increasing public charging and ranges that place is rapidly diminishing. To me, Phev's feel like DVD tech, when bluray/streaming tech is here

 

[OspreyO]

What's the point of a phev if you don't have home charging I don't understand that. Who is going to public charge a phev when it's more expensive than petrol.