EV general discussion

Jonnycoupe · 24 Aug 2020 at 21:59

jpaul said:
thanks yes so they nearly doubled capacity , but battery weight only went up 25%
https://www.whichev.net/2019/11/21/...ing-you-need-to-know-2019-2020-race-calendar/

car weight impact
I'd like to see a an overlayed lateral G&speed for the Taycan, versus a 900+kg lighter, ICE sibling, on the Nürburgring

unless the Taycan has much bigger contact patch on the tyres, or, much lower CofG, it must be be able to go around corners, versus its sibling, limited by the ratio of the weights,
so the taycan would be 40-50% slower, yes it will accelerate faster on the straight, but that G feeling you get going round a nice corner/roundabout will be diminished,
a cars active downforce can impact this issue too, but that's going with square?cube? of speed.

Obviously that lower weight also means additional passive safety margin for the car leaving the road in the wet, say .... you can't overrule the laws of physics.

Why would you like to see that ?

What an utterly odd post - predicting a Taycan can limit G at circa ~0.6G is so wide of the mark its not even worth entertaining the discussion.

Nasher said:
So has a double decker bus.

You were closer with bus, why edit to double decker? your not quite as punchy with your posts as you think.

Lets see, maybe 'cos its not a Porsche and doesnt demand the attributes associated with the brand. When exactly are you gonna wind your neck in - its so boring having the Masher report everyday.

b0rn2sk8 · 24 Aug 2020 at 22:04

Dis86 said:
A 981 Cayman s isn't designed for racing.

It’s also not a huge 4 door GT car or even remotely comparable when considering weight. To clarify what I meant, you are not going to find an ICE car in the same class as a Taycan which is 900kg lighter, like I said a Panamera which is as close as you are going to get is only 200kg lighter.

Another example is a Model 3 Performance is 1850kg and a BMW M3 is just over 1600kg.

Jonnycoupe · 24 Aug 2020 at 22:05

The Cayman ain't got 761PS either :eek:

Dis86 · 24 Aug 2020 at 22:38

b0rn2sk8 said:
It’s also not a huge 4 door GT car or even remotely comparable when considering weight. To clarify what I meant, you are not going to find an ICE car in the same class as a Taycan which is 900kg lighter, like I said a Panamera which is as close as you are going to get is only 200kg lighter.

Another example is a Model 3 Performance is 1850kg and a BMW M3 is just over 1600kg.

You've just moved the goal posts! Keep them steady.

b0rn2sk8 · 24 Aug 2020 at 22:52

Dis86 said:
You've just moved the goal posts! Keep them steady.

Yes, when you ignore half of a 2 line post where I am talking about cars in the same class you could say that I moved the goal posts...

Lets also consider what the post I was responding to said:

jpaul said:
thanks yes so they nearly doubled capacity , but battery weight only went up 25%
https://www.whichev.net/2019/11/21/...ing-you-need-to-know-2019-2020-race-calendar/

car weight impact
I'd like to see a an overlayed lateral G&speed for the Taycan, versus a 900+kg lighter, ICE sibling, on the Nürburgring

unless the Taycan has much bigger contact patch on the tyres, or, much lower CofG, it must be be able to go around corners, versus its sibling, limited by the ratio of the weights,
so the taycan would be 40-50% slower, yes it will accelerate faster on the straight, but that G feeling you get going round a nice corner/roundabout will be diminished,
a cars active downforce can impact this issue too, but that's going with square?cube? of speed.

Obviously that lower weight also means additional passive safety margin for the car leaving the road in the wet, say .... you can't overrule the laws of physics.

The poster specifically refered to an ICE sibling of the Tycan. I don't know about you but I wouldn't class a Cayman as an ICE sibling as of a Taycan, they are completely different classes of car. No one would consider an Audi TT to be a sibling of an Audi RS7, particularly when comparing weight.

Could you compare the Kona Electric vs Kona Ice, yup, Tycan and the Panamera, yes absolutely, Model 3 vs 3 Series, yes while technically not the same class because the Model 3's cabin space is larger despite having similar external dimensions, Ford Mustang Mach E vs Ford Mustang, no don't be silly.

jpaul · 24 Aug 2020 at 23:10

The relative power of the lighter/sibling car versus the Taycan is not so important , at, say 60mph, you could take a curve in a 1200KG car that would overturn/understeer a 2000kg car, unless, the cofg. or contact patch, of the heavier car, countered that.
You could counteract the understeer/inadequate-friction I guess, unlike the car flipping due to high cofg.

[ now, looking up the centre of mavity height sensitivity
Maximum speed (v) = [rgb/h]1/2 http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Mechanics/Circular motion/text/Cars_cornering/index.html
radius(r), track(b) , cofgheight(h)
... so if cofg were 8" as opposed to 12" you'd increase speed by 20%
but, LOL so ability to flip the car and unload the inner tyre is independant of the car mass !
]

Jonnycoupe · 24 Aug 2020 at 23:16

Honestly guys, what are you genuinely getting out of this debate?

Go wash your faces and look in the mirror.

Journey · 24 Aug 2020 at 23:27

Guy buys a Porsche EV and loves it as much or more than his ICE Porsche, random nonsense debate ensues, OCUK motors at its finest.

Simon · 25 Aug 2020 at 07:07

Journey said:
Guy buys a Porsche EV and loves it as much or more than his ICE Porsche, random nonsense debate ensues, OCUK motors at its finest.

Which ICE Porsche was it anyway. You didn’t even say what car he replaced in the original post, let alone that he used to have a Porsche.

Was it a battered old boxster or a nearly new panamera V8?

jpaul · 25 Aug 2020 at 07:35

~~rule britannia~~ this is the problem with deprecation of STEM skills, would be a regular coffee machine discussion at our workplace

Nasher · 25 Aug 2020 at 08:23

jpaul said:
The relative power of the lighter/sibling car versus the Taycan is not so important , at, say 60mph, you could take a curve in a 1200KG car that would overturn/understeer a 2000kg car, unless, the cofg. or contact patch, of the heavier car, countered that.
You could counteract the understeer/inadequate-friction I guess, unlike the car flipping due to high cofg.

[ now, looking up the centre of mavity height sensitivity
Maximum speed (v) = [rgb/h]1/2 http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Mechanics/Circular motion/text/Cars_cornering/index.html
radius(r), track(b) , cofgheight(h)
... so if cofg were 8" as opposed to 12" you'd increase speed by 20%
but, LOL so ability to flip the car and unload the inner tyre is independant of the car mass !
]

You cant really compensate for mass (or lack of it). Everything gets better when you remove weight. You can try and counter it but you wont get the agility, feel or responsiveness of a lightweight.

Jonnycoupe · 25 Aug 2020 at 08:28

jpaul said:
~~rule britannia~~ this is the problem with deprecation of STEM skills, would be a regular coffee machine discussion at our workplace

Using schoolText book age 16-19 Links?

I would hope the stuff you were quoting is somewhat closer to vehicle dynamics than some STEM stuff. But it wasn’t, and truthfully you know that was the case.

MatteRB26 · 26 Aug 2020 at 15:32

I'll be going full electric when they can prise my cold, dead hands from the stick.

ShiWarrior · 29 Aug 2020 at 21:52

well, daily Fail as you all say, BUT

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-2030-Government-electric-vehicle-plans.html

2030 might be the new date for banning NEW sales of Petrol/diesel cars

but , this does not mean banning them from public roads, so fuel will still be available for quite sometime afterwards, but it just means more people will go over to Electric sooner..

Dis86 · 29 Aug 2020 at 22:12

b0rn2sk8 said:
Yes, when you ignore half of a 2 line post where I am talking about cars in the same class you could say that I moved the goal posts...

Lets also consider what the post I was responding to said:

The poster specifically refered to an ICE sibling of the Tycan. I don't know about you but I wouldn't class a Cayman as an ICE sibling as of a Taycan, they are completely different classes of car. No one would consider an Audi TT to be a sibling of an Audi RS7, particularly when comparing weight.

Could you compare the Kona Electric vs Kona Ice, yup, Tycan and the Panamera, yes absolutely, Model 3 vs 3 Series, yes while technically not the same class because the Model 3's cabin space is larger despite having similar external dimensions, Ford Mustang Mach E vs Ford Mustang, no don't be silly.

Could you show me where you mentioned cars of the same class?

MatteRB26 · 30 Aug 2020 at 08:39

I wonder what the government's plan is to tax electric vehicles once ICE cars are phased out...

Joe T · 30 Aug 2020 at 08:42

MatteRB26 said:
I wonder what the government's plan is to tax electric vehicles once ICE cars are phased out...

Whatever it is, it will still make financial sense to go EV over ICE.

b0rn2sk8 · 30 Aug 2020 at 08:51

What ever the tax scenario is, it will also likely apply to ICE vehicles, effectively they will be double taxed off the roads. Taxation (even when very mild) is often a very effective tool for nudging behaviour change in this country. It worked for diesel let alone things like carrier bags and fizzy drinks.

MatteRB26 · 30 Aug 2020 at 08:53

b0rn2sk8 said:
What ever the tax scenario is, it will also likely apply to ICE vehicles, effectively they will be double taxed off the roads. Taxation (even when very mild) is often a very effective tool for nudging behaviour change in this country. It worked for diesel let alone things like carrier bags and fizzy drinks.

"Oh the drinks are a DIY job? Yeah I'd be having diet... *Cough*"

glenimp617 · 1 Sep 2020 at 14:32

It's arrived