EV general discussion

danlightbulb said:
Not sure about that you know. Most shopping centres etc now that have a handful of charge points - they are always occupied. I think people will always occupy them to top up that last 5% even if they dont need it. What happens when someone is off shopping for 2 hours, leaves their car in the charging station occupying that spot, even though it is full already? A waste of a charging point that someone else might need. It would be like parking at a petrol pump and leaving the car there.

And how much are we going to be charged for those fast 20 minute charges, that people NEED to continue their journeys. I'd bet premium prices for sure.
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Gradually there will be more outlets added over time. Eventually there will be car parks filled with EV sockets. It's really not an issue.

Prices for the fast chargers aren't all that expensive and less so when you factor in you aren't going to be using them everyday.
 
It is funny watching the anti EVers constantly moving the goalposts.

I need to drive 300 miles to the middle of nowhere and back in the middle of winter without charging.
Why? You can charge for 20 minutes (or less) en route. Have a break and a coffee after all that driving.
Too long, I need to be able to splash and dash because I am in a massive rush to get to the middle of nowhere.
Oh, what for?
To go camping
So you are in a rush to get 120 miles to the middle of nowhere to go camping and stopping for 20 minutes is too much hassle? Right :rolleyes:
 
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ICDP said:
It is funny watching the anti EVers constantly moving the goalposts.

I need to drive 300 miles to the middle of nowhere and back in the middle of winter without charging.
Why? You can charge for 20 minutes (or less) en route. Have a break and a coffee after all that driving.
Too long, I need to be able to splash and dash because I am in a massive rush to get to the middle of nowhere.
Oh, what for?
To go camping
So you are in a rush to get 120 miles to the middle of nowhere to go camping and stopping for 20 minutes is too much hassle? Right :rolleyes:
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You do realise for some people it’s just not worth the impracticality?
I’m not anti EV (I have a non-REX i3), but there’s a reason I went for a hybrid Q7 instead of an e-tron.

What may seem like a small impracticality for you might be a massive deal for someone else. My in-laws have bladders the size of teacups and will happily stop every 20 minutes when crossing Europe. I, on the other hand, like to get from A to B as fast as possible in the middle of the night without stopping.

You’re just as bad as them, not being able to realise that they value the flexibility more of a hybrid or ICE. Whether you choose to accept it or not, BEVs are still highly impractical for some people.
 
The irony is you clearly don't fall into the anti EV group. I am specifically posting about the kind of person who keeps putting up what they "think" is a valid argument only for it to be easily refuted. And when it is they move the goalposts to yet another illogical responce rather than being pragmatic and saying "I see what you mean".

The particular poster I quoted would absolutely 100% have ample opportunity to stop for a charge in their scenario. And quite frankly so would you and it is not about "impracticality", but about some ill-conceived notion that stopping for 20-30 minutes every few hundred miles is a massive hassle.
 
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I tell you what is a hassle, having to chow down by KFC Zinger Tower burger and beans hotter than the sun at world record speed because the Tesla app has alerted me I've got 5 minutes to return to the car and move it before I get charged for overstaying :D

I finished my fries and and hot wings on the road if anyone was wondering.
 
I've recently spent a couple of days thinking about when I'm going fully electric. Came away from the research pretty unimpressed, probably not this year.

A bit of background. I have a 6.5 year old Skoda Yeti, 4x4 150 TDI, had since new and it's been the perfect car for my deep-rural location and two young children. The only negatives are the bills... servicing, timing belt 2020, new discs and pad '21 and the cost of the fuel, do around 8k a year. Both partner and I work from home pretty much exclusively so trips out are totally dominated by ~5 and ~10 mile round trips to school / nursery and maybe a weekly ~50 mile round trip to somewhere else. Only other driving is maybe four ~500 mile round trips a year spread over a week or so. Additionally we have 10kW of photovoltaic panels so most of our charging would be free.

First thought was to keep the Yeti in the garage, only use it fairly rarely on the long trips, in the snow/mud, when towing trailer etc. total miles maybe around the 4k mark and get a nice little EV runabout for local use... But the Citigo, VW Up etc aren't made any more and the 2nd hand price... HOW MUCH!? £20k+ or still £15k+ at 5 years old.

2nd thought, replace the Yeti with a larger EV. The MG ZS EV is a similar size as the Yeti, not as practical, doesn't feel as nice or well built, not 4x4, can only tow 500kg, pretty much a downgrade in every way, but has a decent battery etc. £30k though seem a bit much... and I kinda feel the Yeti is worth more to me than the ~£9k it might be worth now if I sold it. To get an EV vehicle that could like for like replace everything the Yeti does, is more like the Skoda Enyaq, Kia EV6 - but £45k+ that's well over double the price of the old diesel Yeti was new.

3rd thought, what about a PHEV? The 30-40 mile range is actually enough for 90% of the individual trips we do. There's a PHEV Octavia estate, but it's well over £30k and not available on the 4x4 version. The Toyota Rav4 AWD PHEV could fit the bill... £42k though? That's knocking on Kia EV6 money though!

I guess what I'd like as a little EV runaround, range of something like 50 miles, a Toyota Agyo, Skoda CitiGo type car - a 2nd car and keep the Yeti. But if keeping the Yeti I'd only want to spend £10k. 2nd hand first gen Leaf or Zoe maybe? The Leaf starts around £7k... but for the money it's 24kWh battery, it's 8-10 years old and 70k miles. Much life left in it? Going up to £10k and it's more like 5-6 years old and 50k miles.

4th thought - simply wait a year. Are we going to see smaller, cheaper EVs, suitable for 2nd car. Dacia Spring? Ora Cat? Will there be a smaller MG?
 
clv101 said:
4th thought - simply wait a year. Are we going to see smaller, cheaper EVs, suitable for 2nd car. Dacia Spring? Ora Cat? Will there be a smaller MG?
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Did you look at the MG MG5? MG dealers were knocking them out at £23k on 0% PCP over 48 months, and there are two versions a 52.5kWh, and a 61kWh.
 
I think the point about being forced into it by legislation is true for the whole infrastructure though, as we all have to move this way so will the charging network.

But charging is really not a deal breaker right now, its hardly ever an issue. I know Tesla owners have a better deal at the moment but the others are also getting better and as stated, in most real world situations the range you start off with each day is enough and a quick charge while you get a coffee and visit the loo gives you a decent boost in range.

Symons videos are really interesting.
 
4th thought - simply wait a year.
Everything is moving so quickly there literally is a better value EV around the bend, so I can hang on - the semiconductor shortage and covid is probably helping with manufacturers prioritizing those development, for the financial credits they give.

Russinating said:
I tell you what is a hassle, having to chow down by KFC Zinger Tower burger and beans hotter than the sun at world record speed because the Tesla app has alerted me I've got 5 minutes to return to the car and move it before I get charged for overstaying
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Get a KFC app to get deterministic food delivery times, or ...a hack on the tesla app to throttle the charging back - 3rd world problem

My initial fear that the EV future was going to universaly hold spartan Musk cabin ambiances has been assuaged - I'm looking forward with optmism now.
 
clv101 said:
I've recently spent a couple of days thinking about when I'm going fully electric. Came away from the research pretty unimpressed, probably not this year.

A bit of background. I have a 6.5 year old Skoda Yeti, 4x4 150 TDI, had since new and it's been the perfect car for my deep-rural location and two young children. The only negatives are the bills... servicing, timing belt 2020, new discs and pad '21 and the cost of the fuel, do around 8k a year. Both partner and I work from home pretty much exclusively so trips out are totally dominated by ~5 and ~10 mile round trips to school / nursery and maybe a weekly ~50 mile round trip to somewhere else. Only other driving is maybe four ~500 mile round trips a year spread over a week or so. Additionally we have 10kW of photovoltaic panels so most of our charging would be free.

First thought was to keep the Yeti in the garage, only use it fairly rarely on the long trips, in the snow/mud, when towing trailer etc. total miles maybe around the 4k mark and get a nice little EV runabout for local use... But the Citigo, VW Up etc aren't made any more and the 2nd hand price... HOW MUCH!? £20k+ or still £15k+ at 5 years old.

2nd thought, replace the Yeti with a larger EV. The MG ZS EV is a similar size as the Yeti, not as practical, doesn't feel as nice or well built, not 4x4, can only tow 500kg, pretty much a downgrade in every way, but has a decent battery etc. £30k though seem a bit much... and I kinda feel the Yeti is worth more to me than the ~£9k it might be worth now if I sold it. To get an EV vehicle that could like for like replace everything the Yeti does, is more like the Skoda Enyaq, Kia EV6 - but £45k+ that's well over double the price of the old diesel Yeti was new.

3rd thought, what about a PHEV? The 30-40 mile range is actually enough for 90% of the individual trips we do. There's a PHEV Octavia estate, but it's well over £30k and not available on the 4x4 version. The Toyota Rav4 AWD PHEV could fit the bill... £42k though? That's knocking on Kia EV6 money though!

I guess what I'd like as a little EV runaround, range of something like 50 miles, a Toyota Agyo, Skoda CitiGo type car - a 2nd car and keep the Yeti. But if keeping the Yeti I'd only want to spend £10k. 2nd hand first gen Leaf or Zoe maybe? The Leaf starts around £7k... but for the money it's 24kWh battery, it's 8-10 years old and 70k miles. Much life left in it? Going up to £10k and it's more like 5-6 years old and 50k miles.

4th thought - simply wait a year. Are we going to see smaller, cheaper EVs, suitable for 2nd car. Dacia Spring? Ora Cat? Will there be a smaller MG?
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Wait a year. You have actually described a scenario where I would advise against getting an EV. The new and used car prices are nuts right now. I am only changing because my lease is up and we don't get an option through salary sacrifice to extend the lease.

I sold a 2017 X1 20d M Sport for £16,750 back in July 2020 and it was sold for £19k. The same year and mileage is actually more expensive 18 months later.
 
ICDP said:
And quite frankly so would you and it is not about "impracticality", but about some ill-conceived notion that stopping for 20-30 minutes every few hundred miles is a massive hassle.
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Sorry, but it is. We regularly drive from Belgium to Denmark overnight and stopping for 20-30 minutes 2 or 3 times to charge would literally be a massive hassle with 2 small children who sleep door-to-door. Maybe this is particularly niche but it's true.

I recently starting following a German EV YouTuber (Car Manic if you're interested) and he made a very valid point when justifying his Q7 TFSI e. When travelling long distances with (very) small children, their break times most certainly do not coincide with the car's break times for charging. With older kids and teens, it's probably fine travelling down to the south of France or the Med and stopping to queue & charge. They'd use their phones, record some TikTok dances, etc. But small kids don't work that way and it really is massively impractical. YMMV but for some people, this is the reality!
 
Whether or not someone else deems my circumstances a hassle or not - its not really up to them. I deem stopping once or twice on a 3 hour trip a significant inconvenience because I just go straight through now, I don't need to stop. Even if I wanted to get an EV now, I couldn't because the infrastructure is not there at my destinations for my use case. How long will it be before it is? I'd imagine I'll be right at the tail end of the roll out because of the more remote places I drive to.

The point is not whether I could stop, its why I should need to. We're going backwards if this is implemented without the infrastructure. Also if the technology develops so the cars can do 4-500 miles, then we'd be getting somewhere because the recharge risk is eliminated. Also don't forget I'd be quite heavily loaded with my camping gear and mountain bike so that will effect range.

This is before we even get onto the cost. My cars I keep for 4-6 years and spend about £3k on them these days. How long before a used EV is £3k?
 
danlightbulb said:
This is before we even get onto the cost. My cars I keep for 4-6 years and spend about £3k on them these days. How long before a used EV is £3k?
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You 100% should not be buying an EV, ever really. Just stick to petrol/diesel or LPG, keep the vehicle cost low and the fuel cost will be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things even if it does go to £3.00/L or more in the next 5-6 years. Yeah you'll be limited to where you can drive at some point without paying a fine, or a fee, and you may be banned entirely from National Trust areas etc. but you'll keep your convenience, and people are happy to pay for that.
 
On the subject of stopping to recharge and get food or a coffee etc.

Aren't you supposed to take a break every 4 hours or so anyway to keep yourself fresh and awake? A 20 break after a couple of hundred miles can't really be all that inconvenient.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Isn't the point that actually yes, they are? This isn't a natural move to a better tech thats available to those who want it, it's effectively forced by legislation. If he wants to buy a new car after 2030, he will have no choice. If he wants to buy one before 2030, he will have far less choice than he did as manufacturers start to reduce their ranges in anticipation of the ban.

Whether he likes it or not, he's going to be forced to eventually buy an EV regardless of whether it will work for him.
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Hybrids are still an option to 2035. It isn't exactly unreasonable to run a 5 year old car even if you have some inexplicable attraction to paying depreciation on cars so we are now talking about 2040. That is two generations (at least) of EV vehicles and the best part of 2 decades of infrastructure improvement before anyone is forced into anything. Who knows what the situation will be by then. They may have a solar charger with battery storage from old Tesla Model Y battery packs at the foot of Ben Nevis for our resident adventurer. Or maybe cars will do 600 miles between charges and it is a non issue anyway.

Sure, car choice will reduce and I'm sure the cost of running an ICE will rise but those are factors that drive personal choice.

I'm quite looking forward to being that old fart in his stupid old sports car. Even if it does cost me £3/L (+ inflation) to fuel it.
 
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