EV general discussion

[Jonnycoupe]

Errrm The tanks and cost are massive that’s why it’s in an X5, hydrogen is never cited as heavier than BEV!

PHEV you mentioned is an odd one as with a 6 cylinder they aren’t particularly light anyway.

Surely everyone knows it’s a lighter solution hence it’s targeting to applications where PAYLOAD is important. Just not packaging. That Murai I went in was comedy row 2 accommodation and boot space for such a large car and Honda has just halted sales of the FCx Clarity.

 

[SDK^]

Wow 2025 with no new cars, and hoping to compete in the £100k+ low volume market, can't see them lasting much longer tbh. Someone will probably end up buying the name like they did with MG. It'll be sad to see them go, but nothing lasts for ever.

It’ll be a shame. Jag just never seem to do well, despite having a range of cars which look and go (some of them) better the the 3 top German brands.
I think they pitch the price slightly too high, and the cars just miss the mark when you compare them to the competition - Infotainment not quite there, too many costly options, and slightly behind on engine tech.

Now going up against Porsche, Bentley and Aston

 

[Sagalout]

Similar parts shortage although I think the 23MY builds have HSE back to full spec, not advertised well though and fails to appear in many group tests which is disappointing. I love mine, remains one of the few EV driver orientated cars even now.

I love my iPace - probably the only car that 2.5 years into ownership I haven’t got bored of. Done loads of holidays and long trips in it and it’s been totally reliable. Fast, decent range, great handling and practical and value wise sits nicely between the Kia and Porsche. For some reason it’s completely ignored by the motoring press and even Jaguar itself. They built a car that was far ahead of the traditional competition then have sadly let that lead slide. It’s quite an old car now but the range and performance still stacks up against most cars.

I think when my lease is up though at the end of the year I’ll be looking to jump to the Cross Turismo. The faster charging is a consideration, and it’s the only other driver orientated practical car at the moment. Probably need to extend the lease by a bit though, as CT is a Q1 2023 delivery if ordering now.

 

[Minstadave]

How is the iPace doing these days?

I see a few around but you don’t hear much from jag in the general EV discourse these days.

Mine sat off the road for 3-4 months with a broken heater module. Seems a common fault too and very long waits are common. Hopefully the supply issues are easing from Webasto.

I don't think Jag have any plans to move the iPace on with a sequel either.

 

[HangTime]

Interesting from Autocar

"The Tesla Model Y was the best-selling car in the UK last month, followed closely by its Tesla Model 3 sibling"

"Tesla registered 6464 examples of the SUV and 6457 of the saloon, both some way ahead of the Vauxhall Corsa in third place, with 5515, and the Nissan Qashqai in fourth, with 5401."

Yeah, real sign of the times if Tesla has the top 2 selling cars. Maybe my son will stop saying "wow look it's a Tesla!" soon
Although it is worth noting that it was the lowest March sales on record since they introduced new plates in March, so competition was at an all-time low in terms of new vehicle registrations.

That said, i know they got the money to put these in but I don’t really understand why the council would want to run the chargers themselves. It just seems like a lot of grief that could be handed to someone pod point/shell/BP/instavolt/mfg/osprey for a small cut of the takings.

The only way to make money off these things is like fuel, it’s all about the volume of transactions to cover the overheads and a council isn’t going to get that.

It might be due to the location, IOW is a bit unusual in that the vast majority of journeys are low mileage so it's both prime use case for electric BUT also perhaps limited by the fact incomes are low, so probably not many people buying new electric cars. I wonder if the big commercial players are a bit put off, maybe there's some additional infrastructure reasons that complicate matters who knows.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

All valid points but the IoW is stacked full of tourists with nowhere to charge at home, it seems a bit short sighted to ignore it for much longer!

I’ve been there a bunch of times on holiday as a child.

 

[Journey]

Yeah, real sign of the times if Tesla has the top 2 selling cars. Maybe my son will stop saying "wow look it's a Tesla!" soon

Yeah it will turn in to, "oh no not another one!"
Pretty amazing to think Tesla have never done any paid advertising, and it's all word of mouth, news articles, and other things like social media driving those sales so high.

 

[SDK^]

Yeah it will turn in to, "oh no not another one!"

There are already so many TM3's on the road that the spotting situation is like Taxi's in London or NYC.

 

[jpaul]

Errrm The tanks and cost are massive that’s why it’s in an X5, hydrogen is never cited as heavier than BEV!
PHEV you mentioned is an odd one as with a 6 cylinder they aren’t particularly light anyway.

OK as they say in video too, hydrogen car weight total is lighter than a full bev, which is one criticism of them(nimbleness, addditional energy use), and only similar to a phev, bmw haven't disclosed the battery size in the i5H;
I suspect it is bigger than mirais couple of kwh's, like toyota/lexus mild hybrids's too, to satisfy BMW performance marketting aspiration,
which is a good omen for hydrogen, but not if they can't package hydrogen in a 3 series body, to give additional benefit of the smaller, than suv, aero profile, too.

If hydrogen is really the solution for hgv longer distance, in the UK, with our smaller distances than US, then the H distribution infrastructure will need to be present,
on at least the same scale as superchargers.

 

[SDK^]

the H distribution infrastructure will need to be present,
on at least the same scale as superchargers.

National Grid has successfully tested using the Gas Transmission network with Hydrogen. So if/when the pipes are no longer required for Gas, then they can be used for Hydrogen.

The network looks like this, so moving Hydrogen around the country in large volumes won't be a problem.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Interesting from Autocar

"The Tesla Model Y was the best-selling car in the UK last month, followed closely by its Tesla Model 3 sibling"

"Tesla registered 6464 examples of the SUV and 6457 of the saloon, both some way ahead of the Vauxhall Corsa in third place, with 5515, and the Nissan Qashqai in fourth, with 5401."

It is interesting but don't forget how disrupted the new car market currently is.

If we go back about 8 years, the average monthly sales figures were:

Ford Fiesta 11000
Ford Focus 7000
Vauxhall Corsa 7000
Golf 6000
Vauxhall Astra 5000

So we can see that small Ford hatchbacks sold almost 20,000 a month and even small Vauxhall hatchbacks were at 12,000 a month. So in this context, sales remain low and the market remains quite different to usual.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Which is why Rory’s video is so disappointing. Pretty much the only XEs being made were in China for China 2021.

 

[SDK^]

It is interesting but don't forget how disrupted the new car market currently is.

If we go back about 8 years, the average monthly sales figures were:

Ford Fiesta 11000
Ford Focus 7000
Vauxhall Corsa 7000
Golf 6000
Vauxhall Astra 5000

So we can see that small Ford hatchbacks sold almost 20,000 a month and even small Vauxhall hatchbacks were at 12,000 a month. So in this context, sales remain low and the market remains quite different to usual.

Yeah interesting - Back then it was £15k cars being financed and leased leading the sales charts. Now it’s £45-55k cars doing the same - people got richer !

 

[Simon]

Or the car lease deals per month are similar. Mainly funded by massively lower BIK ?

and a lot less cars being sold

 

[jpaul]

National Grid has successfully tested using the Gas Transmission network with Hydrogen. So if/when the pipes are no longer required for Gas, then they can be used for Hydrogen.

timescale for this though ?all the domestic gas dependency would have to have ceased. ... and the cars will be here in under 5 years.

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Keep seeing an mg5 ev down at Aldi, they're an attractive design,
hadn't appreciated these have £100 V2L 2.2KW option ... so you could be utilising that for offsetting from cheaper night time electric rates,
or following earlier folks in the thread plugging in overnight at Cambridgeshire tescos for free, to use that during the day at home.
2.2KW isn't enough for the oven, or hob, and might have difficultiies getting that without loss to indoors appliances, or put appliance in garage. (wash machine, ironing board...)

 

[m4rmite]

National Grid has successfully tested using the Gas Transmission network with Hydrogen. So if/when the pipes are no longer required for Gas, then they can be used for Hydrogen.

The network looks like this, so moving Hydrogen around the country in large volumes won't be a problem.

Not strictly true.
National grid have tested a 20% hydrogen 80%methane blend.
There is a small area that is 100% hydrogen only but it is still at trial status.
Hydrogen can't be used on cast iron pipe work of which they're will still be plenty of.
Also not all the plastic piping that has been used will be suitable.

What's more worrying is that current methane gas detectors, that also detect carbon monoxide, will need to be changed.
Hydrogen screws up the carbon monoxide detection as it sticks to the sensors.
Nothing to do with cars per se but imagine when an engineer comes to fix a leak in your house.
I'm sure someone will support it out anytime now.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

timescale for this though ?all the domestic gas dependency would have to have ceased. ... and the cars will be here in under 5 years.

---

Keep seeing an mg5 ev down at Aldi, they're an attractive design,
hadn't appreciated these have £100 V2L 2.2KW option ... so you could be utilising that for offsetting from cheaper night time electric rates,
or following earlier folks in the thread plugging in overnight at Cambridgeshire tescos for free, to use that during the day at home.
2.2KW isn't enough for the oven, or hob, and might have difficultiies getting that without loss to indoors appliances, or put appliance in garage. (wash machine, ironing board...)

V2L is just to power an external device, it provides the owner with 3 pin plug socket. It will not link to your house/the grid. That needs a dedicated unit with the appropriate control.

please research the subject before conjecture around your own perceived benefits of what it might do.

 

[sandys]

V2L is just to power an external device, it provides the owner with 3 pin plug socket. It will not link to your house/the grid. That needs a dedicated unit with the appropriate control.

please research the subject before conjecture around your own perceived benefits of what it might do.

Yup, even if you have solar and house battery this does not automatically allow you to use your house in an outage, you need specific controller with isolator etc. not sure even the Tesla powerwall which offers grid isolation will take supply from the vehicle battery.

Once that becomes a use case and this is being looked into then there will likely be updated terms and regulation on your vehicle and approvals for this use case, as the impact on the battery life and controller requirements would need to be accommodated for, seems a great use case for a car battery that is often attached to your house though, I really like this possibility, another tick on the boxes required to man maths my way into a massive batteried full EV ownership.

 

[jpaul]

Yup, even if you have solar and house battery this does not automatically allow you to use your house in an outage, you need specific controller with isolator etc. not sure even the Tesla powerwall which offers grid isolation will take supply from the vehicle battery.

yes, of course, vehicle to load is a step, any practical use of v2l in the interim interesting though, to amortize ev investment.

next step hyundai
https://thedriven.io/2022/04/07/hyundai-to-allow-its-ev-batteries-to-do-vehicle-to-everything/
Hyundai says it has been trialling a number of Ioniq 5s modified with V2G technology – which requires a different interface and inverter system to V2L – in two “V2X” (vehicle-to-everything) projects in the Netherlands and Germany.

 

[jpaul]

meantime

mar 25 Electric vehicle battery makers will need to raise prices by almost 25% due to soaring lithium carbonate prices, leading to crimped margins and possibly demand destruction, according to Morgan Stanley.
Chinese prices for lithium carbonate, the key ingredient in many batteries, have jumped fivefold over the past year, analysts including Jack Lu said in a note. The pass-through of costs could push EV manufacturers to raise prices by as much as 15% and may hit demand, they said in the note dated March 24.