EV general discussion

[Jonnycoupe]

Chademo Gen3 or ChaoJi is looking at DC of up to 900A but that's an Asian specific market as oppose to CCS. So yeah basically 400kW is a pretty much cap for now - 5 years for UK, EU and USA.

I does so they are all good.

Even when considering all that, it’s fair to say thar the cells are still the main limiting factor on any sensibly sized (E.g. 70-80kwh) battery pack.

To be fair I covered that in the post prior. Current tech around 3C is sensible, things like high silicon dioxide anodes might push it up but 80kWh pack charging around 240kW (hence 3C). etc

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Chademo Gen3 or ChaoJi is looking at DC of up to 900V but that's an Asian specific market as oppose to CCS. So yeah basically 400kW is a pretty much cap for now - 5 years for UK, EU and USA.




To be fair I covered that in the post prior. Current tech around 3C is sensible, things like high silicon dioxide anodes might push it up but 80kWh pack charging around 240kW (hence 3C). etc

I missed that but yeh, it doesn’t harm to re-emphasise the point.

So cars are goign to top out at 800V and 500A forever basically? Or is there scope to go above that without needing special licences to operate machinery...

I’m not sure that’s really a huge problem. 400kw is a huge amount of power, in theory that’s 6.6 kWh added to the pack per minute. In a reasonably efficient car doing 4 miles per kWh, that’s 26 miles added per minute. 100 miles in 4 minutes, 200 miles in 8 minutes.

It’s fair to say we are a long way from that being the reality at the moment for anything with a sensibly sized battery pack.

Imagine having 32 of these sat next to each other switching off and on every 8 minutes. They could go from drawing 13mw to nothing in minutes, all day every day. That’s also going take some planning and upgrades elsewhere first.

 

[jpaul]

The other 64K question about PPE platform and its 800V is whether the cars will improve on the efficiency exhibited by taycan versus teslaS , maybe owners won't care,
but if the 800V recharge time is still offset by the relatively poor efficiency on motor and convertor, so that it delivers inferior m/KwH, so that you ... need a bigger battery to compensate.

 

[Simon]

Don’t confuse the cars fundamental physics and target audience with the voltage it runs at.

 

[chanjy]

I’m not sure that’s really a huge problem. 400kw is a huge amount of power, in theory that’s 6.6 kWh added to the pack per minute. In a reasonably efficient car doing 4 miles per kWh, that’s 26 miles added per minute. 100 miles in 4 minutes, 200 miles in 8 minutes.

It’s fair to say we are a long way from that being the reality at the moment for anything with a sensibly sized battery pack.

Imagine having 32 of these sat next to each other switching off and on every 8 minutes. They could go from drawing 13mw to nothing in minutes, all day every day. That’s also going take some planning and upgrades elsewhere first.

Haha yeah I guess that's fair. If 400kw becomes a reality in all seasons then nobody can really complain

 

[Jonnycoupe]

The other 64K question about PPE platform and its 800V is whether the cars will improve on the efficiency exhibited by taycan versus teslaS , maybe owners won't care,
but if the 800V recharge time is still offset by the relatively poor efficiency on motor and convertor, so that it delivers inferior m/KwH, so that you ... need a bigger battery to compensate.

Steady state cruise the difference in losses is negligible as the current is so low, don’t get hung up on it: battery time spent on copper fill of the motor, low friction bearings and silicon carbide switching in the inverter. It’s probably a 64p question.

PS. Your SI units remain a mess.

 

[jpaul]

Steady state cruise the difference in losses is negligible

yes good point maybe Tesla just draws ahead on efficiency during acceleration/deceleration (wonder how much time they take dismantling/analysing behaviour of one anothers cars) - will PPE improve situation. ?
as a current Porsche/prospective PPE owner, they must reflect on whether the product is showing leading edge engineering & fits their ethos - Vorsprung durch Technik.

yes i know si units are out, reaction to the energy thread pedants wars, where kW has been used instead of kWh.

[ e: ok https://insideevs.com/news/440424/porsche-taycan-4s-range-test-great-results/
Results at 120 km/h (75 mph):

• range of 425 km (264 miles), down 26.6% compared to 90 km/h
• energy consumption of 203 Wh/km (327 Wh/mile)
• available energy capacity of 86.1 kWh (out of 93.4 kWh total)

When comparing it with Tesla Model S Long Range Raven (although tested in slightly less optimum temperature conditions), the range was 11% higher - in both categories.
That's really not a huge difference, especially since Model S got 92.7 kWh of estimated usable capacity (5.8 kWh or 6.7% more than Taycan). In other words, in similar conditions, the difference could be surprisingly small.

Tesla Model S LR Raven
Results at 120 km/h (75 mph):

• range of 473 km (294 miles)
• energy consumption of 196 Wh/km (315 Wh/mile)
• available energy capacity of 92.7 kWh (out of about 100 kWh total)

]

 

[Simon]

First make statements. Then you research. Then you realise you were wrong ?

Maybe try doing it in a different order next time

The BMW i4 is pretty good on the usual YouTube tests.

 

[mjt]

60Ah i3 is frustrating! Thankfully it's getting a new EME fitted this week so will be able to charge at 11kw in my wallbox rather than the current 3kw. Still, 90km realistic range in this weather is total pap

 

[Ali195]

60Ah i3 is frustrating! Thankfully it's getting a new EME fitted this week so will be able to charge at 11kw in my wallbox rather than the current 3kw. Still, 90km realistic range in this weather is total pap

55miles? Lol what? An ICE warning light would come on not far off that.

 

[mjt]

55miles? Lol what? An ICE warning light would come not far off that.

Yup pretty much. 2016, so first gen only fitted with 18.8kw useable battery. Shows how far EVs have come!
Although facelift only gained 27.2 useable and finally 37.9kw useable before it was discontinued, so hardly gigantic, but it's a city car.

Looking to upgrade to an late-model 120Ah i3S but prices are strong and would rather not spend the best part of €20k to swap.

 

[booyaka]

Tesla forums in meltdown this morning about price cuts....

People screaming blue murder who just got a car in last few weeks etc.

Tesla just reduced prices of their cars by £5k for LR and £8k for P Model Y's

Model 3's are cut in price as well by up to £5k

 

[sovietspybob]

Tesla forums in meltdown this morning about price cuts....

People screaming blue murder who just got a car in last few weeks etc.

Tesla just reduced prices of their cars by £5k for LR and £8k for P Model Y's

Model 3's are cut in price as well by up to £5k

tbf they needed to do that as they had crept up a lot over the last 2 years, not that i can afford one anyway but they do seem more reasonable value again now compared to the competition.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Insane production rates with the demand reducing, pretty disruption to have price changes so significant and frequent.

 

[Uther]

Insane production rates with the demand reducing, pretty disruption to have price changes so significant and frequent.

That's Elon though, he's nuts!
Just saw that a near neighbour got a wallbox fitted for their Nero, end terrace like us so it looks like we should be able to do it too when the time comes.

 

[gailjon]

Tesla forums in meltdown this morning about price cuts....

People screaming blue murder who just got a car in last few weeks etc.

Tesla just reduced prices of their cars by £5k for LR and £8k for P Model Y's

Model 3's are cut in price as well by up to £5k

To be fair to them it would be a real PITA to hear about price cuts just after paying the higher price.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

And pay higher BIK as P11d is locked in. Painful.

 

[glenimp617]

The standard range Tesla was never worth anywhere near £50k. You'd have to be crazy to order one at that price.

 

[glenimp617]

My Etron goes back this September so having to decide what to replace it with. Need to decide now as most places have a 6+ month wait.

I'll never get anything as good for the same money, £200 a month inc 2xinsurance, servicing, tyres, rac+eu so looking like a worse car for more money.

Thinking about the MG 4 Trophy, it doesn't look bad and it's amongst the cheapest available. Love the looks of the BYD and Fisker, but they aren't out yet and I need to order asap.

 

[VincentHanna]

You got an E-tron for £200 a month?!