EV general discussion

[bigmike20vt]

Thanks for advice, will check the threads out. Seems like a nice saving to look forward to in future. I know we definitely dont have a heat pump but heard mixed reviews on them.

Just in the process on changing our old manual gas and electric meters to smart ones. (Selling home soon so not sure if its better or worse)
If its not broke, why fix it?

did you say your home isnt built yet.................. but they are NOT putting in a heatpump? FFS that is terrible (not blaming you, but your builder needs a kick in the nads!)

ANY new build with the proper insualtion will be a perfect fit for a heatpump and it is outrageous that new builds are going in with gas nowadays. if it were me i would be on to them asking / demanding a heatpump instead of gas.......
poorly fitted heatpumps in poorly insulated houses can end up being expensive, but in a new build? its as much a no brainer as solar panels imo.

 

[Lighters]

Yep, home isnt built yet - due to be built Dec 2024 - no mention of heat pump.

If only I had of known pre signing contracts etc - will enquire but unlikely we will get anything as doubt they will want to contribute to extra costs of building.

 

[bigmike20vt]

i thought there was a ban on gas boilers going into new builds from 2025.... i assumed that meant from 1st of jan 2025 but maybe it means 31st december 2025... if its 1st of jan 2025 then i doubt they would risk gas in december 2024 in case the build is delayed a few months

either way its proper luddite thinking your builder still fitting gas as late as december 2024 . .... hopefully no mention of heat pump was because their installation is just automatic now so not something they discuss with you. defo chase it up, with good insualtion and solar/battery system (also enquire if you house will have a battery, and if it doesnt, ask if the inverter running the solar panels is at least going to be a hybrid one which will allow you to cheaply and easily add one in later.

sorry hugely OT for this thread but as the build has not started now then maybe you can still configure it slightly if needed

 

[Tinders]

I'd still want Gas CH tbh, even if its a new build, even if money was no object, id still want gas, and move to a HP when i really needed to. The UK 'heating engineering' industry is not trained well enough to design and install HP's correctly.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I'd still want Gas CH tbh, even if its a new build, even if money was no object, id still want gas, and move to a HP when i really needed to. The UK 'heating engineering' industry is not trained well enough to design and install HP's correctly.

Just contract a contractor that does - there are plenty out there than can do it to an excellent standard.

Presumably as it’s a new built it will be all UFH anyway?

The irony is that if they put in gas and it’s all UFH, they’ll be able to drop in a heat pump for nothing if the £7k grant is still around.

 

[Demon]

Looking to replace our 24kWh Leaf with a 62kWh version. We're also Indra V2H trialists so makes sense to PCP for a few years and treat the car like a house battery.

In this day/age the Leaf is quite outdated, still no proper battery thermal management, one of our neighbours had a 2021 leaf, but has chopped it in for the Ariya after just 15 months as the range/charging/everything else on the leaf just wasn't working out that well..

Add in V2H usage and it's probably the least preferable option, you want something with a BYD LFP battery that is has good thermal management, those can charge to 100% all the time and are probably best suited to V2H..

 

[bigmike20vt]

In this day/age the Leaf is quite outdated, still no proper battery thermal management, one of our neighbours had a 2021 leaf, but has chopped it in for the Ariya after just 15 months as the range/charging/everything else on the leaf just wasn't working out that well..

Add in V2H usage and it's probably the least preferable option, you want something with a BYD LFP battery that is has good thermal management, those can charge to 100% all the time and are probably best suited to V2H..

if it is anything like the octopus V2H trial i considered signing up to, you dont get to choose. At the time it was only Nissan who allowed their cars to be used in the trial.. and it had to be chademo as well.

is there any easy way to get Type 2 cars running V2H? i know some cars do vehicle to load, and type 2 is technically capable of bidirectional supply, but i didnt think anything in this country had geared up for that yet?

 

[Demon]

I'd still want Gas CH tbh, even if its a new build, even if money was no object, id still want gas, and move to a HP when i really needed to. The UK 'heating engineering' industry is not trained well enough to design and install HP's correctly.

Yeah, I saw a nightmare install on Skill Builders Youtube channel were they got the 'Heat Geek' out and I like their approach of training and offering a proper scheme, but it shows how poor some installers can be.

Personally, I would just prefer a good A2A heat pump, so effectively we can have aircon in summer as well, and I'd go solar/batteries to offset the inefficiency.. less rads, but frowned upon due to extra energy usage..

 

[lordrobs]

I'd still want Gas CH tbh, even if its a new build, even if money was no object, id still want gas, and move to a HP when i really needed to. The UK 'heating engineering' industry is not trained well enough to design and install HP's correctly.

Absolutely. Guy at work is doing a full renovation of a bungalow turning it into a chalet with new under floor heating, insulation etc.

I think he's on visit number 5 to try and get the heat pump working by the approved installer. From what I've heard there is lots of scrolling through menus and head scratching but after a couple of hours it switches itself off and it's back to square one.

Time will come that they are so common place that it's not even a consideration anymore but I wouldn't be rushing to be one of those going through the pain early doors with installers who are learning on the fly.

We've got a well insulated floor (according to the neighbours who saw the places getting built), underfloor heating and general good insulation all round (upstairs heating barely needs to come on) so we should be able to drop in a heatpump when the time comes. Until that time comes though we'll be keeping the gas boiler going which I think still has 2 years warranty remaining and hopefully plenty more years after that.

Next thing I need to get my head round is whether the electricity supply to the garage would be enough for an EV charger. The cable looks chunky but must be armoured so I don't really know is that means anything. A problem for later down the line though.

 

[Simon]

In this day/age the Leaf is quite outdated, still no proper battery thermal management, one of our neighbours had a 2021 leaf, but has chopped it in for the Ariya after just 15 months as the range/charging/everything else on the leaf just wasn't working out that well..

Add in V2H usage and it's probably the least preferable option, you want something with a BYD LFP battery that is has good thermal management, those can charge to 100% all the time and are probably best suited to V2H..

Why do you need thermal management on a low draw. A house is going to be 20kW at the max and the charger/house supply is likely below that anyway

 

[Demon]

Why do you need thermal management on a low draw. A house is going to be 20kW at the max and the charger/house supply is likely below that anyway

True, and a good point, in theory it shouldn't, I was more generalising that the Leaf is still a car that doesn't have the normal level of battery management everything else does, and is known for higher degredation, my neighbours 62kwh leaf had 88% SoH after 12 months, he only noticed that for the same efficiency he had noticeably less range and used leaf spy, at nearly 18 months it was 84%. He brought it up with his dealer, as he charges every day almost, had done 20k miles but it was 99% charged at home, the dealer said it was fine and more frequent charging would add to the degredation.. so he px/d it for a Ariya and is keeping an eye on it.

However, I'll recind my scepticism, because obviously it would seem they've tweaked the chemistry and do supply an approved V2H adapter: https://www.greencarreports.com/new...hy as,range degradation than earlier versions.
So presume you are correct, the minimal loads/extra cycles is probably fine as I assume it's designed around that.

 

[bloodiedathame]

if it is anything like the octopus V2H trial i considered signing up to, you dont get to choose. At the time it was only Nissan who allowed their cars to be used in the trial.. and it had to be chademo as well.

is there any easy way to get Type 2 cars running V2H? i know some cars do vehicle to load, and type 2 is technically capable of bidirectional supply, but i didnt think anything in this country had geared up for that yet?

Yeah has to be a Chademo car. Known cars to work are essentially the Leaf and the Outlander (with a puny battery).

Our 2015 has only lost one bar, has done 73000 miles and charged overnight with the granny charger almost exclusively. I'm pretty pleased with that.

 

[Demon]

Yeah has to be a Chademo car. Known cars to work are essentially the Leaf and the Outlander (with a puny battery).

Our 2015 has only lost one bar, has done 73000 miles and charged overnight with the granny charger almost exclusively. I'm pretty pleased with that.

The first bar is 15%, the next bars are 6.25%, so in theory your battery could be anywhere from 78.76% to 85%, so it’s OK, but more modern architectures are testing to be over 90% SoH around that mileage, which is just phenomenal.

 

[jpaul]

probably are parallels between the home heat pump and the car ones - long term reliability and maintenance requirements (like those pesky matrix light replacement costs)
car ones obviously in a harsh environment, are they considered part of the battery&power system components so subject to the 8yr/100K warranty.
what is the age of oldest ev's with heat pumps.

e: doubt heat pump would help bjorn buzz video trip to arctic circle -15C , like iowa, cabin heater 5Kw - good info for randomshenans
the cult of the air fryer https://youtu.be/YggztC7naCU
e2: with newer double glazed cars does that cut cabin heating energy costs

 

[b0rn2sk8]

probably are parallels between the home heat pump and the car ones - long term reliability and maintenance requirements (like those pesky matrix light replacement costs)
car ones obviously in a harsh environment, are they considered part of the battery&power system components so subject to the 8yr/100K warranty.
what is the age of oldest ev's with heat pumps.

I don’t think they are, certainly not on my Tesla.

The 8 year warranty covers the traction battery and the motor only. Ancillary components are not covered.

The heat pump assembly is rather expensive if it breaks outside of the standard warranty.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

probably are parallels between the home heat pump and the car ones - long term reliability and maintenance requirements (like those pesky matrix light replacement costs)
car ones obviously in a harsh environment, are they considered part of the battery&power system components so subject to the 8yr/100K warranty.
what is the age of oldest ev's with heat pumps.

e: doubt heat pump would help bjorn buzz video trip to arctic circle -15C , like iowa, cabin heater 5Kw - good info for randomshenans
the cult of the air fryer https://youtu.be/YggztC7naCU

A heat pump in a car is not really much different to air conditioning, certainly the most vulnerable part is the condensor / also evaportator role on a heat pump car, the additional hardware is just valving of various methods and then the clever heat flux management software to control it for best efficiency.

yes another questing from jpaul that pretty much leads onto an answer/statement. Most bizarre.

 

[VincentHanna]

Anyone ever leased via Gridserve? I got a 3 month free charging RFID card, which I used yesterday for the first time.

After I started the charge and went in to the shop a man with a tablet came out and was near my car, I think he might have been checking the registration number matched? Which it would have obviously.

I understand why they might need to do so, but surely they don't always have somewhere there 24/7?

 

[chanjy]

Anyone ever leased via Gridserve? I got a 3 month free charging RFID card, which I used yesterday for the first time.

After I started the charge and went in to the shop a man with a tablet came out and was near my car, I think he might have been checking the registration number matched? Which it would have obviously.

I understand why they might need to do so, but surely they don't always have somewhere there 24/7?

If it's a forecourt they are always staffed

At a motorway services obviously not so much

 

[Greebo]

i thought there was a ban on gas boilers going into new builds from 2025.... i assumed that meant from 1st of jan 2025 but maybe it means 31st december 2025... if its 1st of jan 2025 then i doubt they would risk gas in december 2024 in case the build is delayed a few months

either way its proper luddite thinking your builder still fitting gas as late as december 2024 . .... hopefully no mention of heat pump was because their installation is just automatic now so not something they discuss with you. defo chase it up, with good insualtion and solar/battery system (also enquire if you house will have a battery, and if it doesnt, ask if the inverter running the solar panels is at least going to be a hybrid one which will allow you to cheaply and easily add one in later.

sorry hugely OT for this thread but as the build has not started now then maybe you can still configure it slightly if needed

The Govt back tracked and the ban on gas boilers in new homes doesnt come in until 2035. Part of winning votes from climate change sceptics. New house builders are going to go for the cheapest, quickest option: Gas CH.

 

[Tinders]

Bleeding boiler companies have started jacking their prices up already in anticipation for any fines.