Does is need to be a Tesla? Sure they do plenty of models
EV general discussion
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Does is need to be a Tesla? Sure they do plenty of models
This issue is I need a 20k / year lease, and at I do 200 mile day trips for work every week. There is very little charging infrastructure where I go. So no destination charging and very little rapid.
So some of the cheaper EV’s are a bit to close for comfort range wise.
By the time you spec out an VW ID3, BMW i4 or an IONIQ 6. They are the same or more expensive than the Tesla 3 base that will meet my requirements well and give me access to the supercharger network.
The LR would be nice as dozen times a year a do some very long drives. But this is for personal tips so stoping a bit more isn’t really an issue.
I’m only just starting my journey at looking at cars so planning to order around Feb.
So some of the cheaper EV’s are a bit to close for comfort range wise.
By the time you spec out an VW ID3, BMW i4 or an IONIQ 6. They are the same or more expensive than the Tesla 3 base that will meet my requirements well and give me access to the supercharger network.
The LR would be nice as dozen times a year a do some very long drives. But this is for personal tips so stoping a bit more isn’t really an issue.
I’m only just starting my journey at looking at cars so planning to order around Feb.
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So what are the actual prices you have been quoted, interested to know.
Just been looking at pricing again for lots of other cars.
It’s dropped since yesterday (the new variant only came on this week)
So this is all 15K miles per year, fully insured, maintenance and as long as I have had the car longer than 6 months, if I leave the company I can just hand it back.
No options or paint added
New model 3 - £579
New model 3 LR - £744
2022 model 3 LE - £624
This is via salary sacrifice, I get an allowance from work so the numbers above are after Tax and BIK reduction to net pay.
An ID3 Pro S is £515 as another example.
Edit Cupar Born 77kwh - £521
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I wouldn't bother with the Long Range, you won't normally charge it over 80% due to the battery chemistry. Thus the base one gives you similar usable miles on a daily basis.
Also the extra miles aren't that important once you need to start stopping to charge as you don't fill up, but generally charge to 80% or less as it's faster to stop more times and charge in the faster charging range.
Also the extra miles aren't that important once you need to start stopping to charge as you don't fill up, but generally charge to 80% or less as it's faster to stop more times and charge in the faster charging range.
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This is where my head is at currently, you get a lot of car for the base one that other cars don’t look to match up to when you spec them out.
Strangely I find that as I gain experience of EV ownership, I stop chasing “moar range”. I have a car that does 220 winter and 270 summer miles but instead of wanting more for my next EV, I would happily drop to 170 and 220ish.
I finally realised after a few years of running a EV, the difference in travel time on a long range road trip a few times a year is just not life changing enough to give a crap.
I finally realised after a few years of running a EV, the difference in travel time on a long range road trip a few times a year is just not life changing enough to give a crap.
Tried to explain this to people numerous times but they just don't get it. Still more that chuffed with my 'crappy' Ioniq 38kWh. D
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I find range anxiety isn't the thing I thought it might be - it's more charging time which has to be taken into account.
Why? Is the question. Is it really life changing and imperative that you finish charging in 20 minutes instead of 30, or even 40?
What is the point of a car being ready to go 20 minutes before your family is?
I’m not being argumentative or condescending, just genuinely interested. Because I used to think the same… we need over 300 miles of range and 10% to 80% in 20 minutes, or EVs are never going to work. Yet I have coped with a lot less than that for 3.5 years and not once did I regret going EV.
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for me it is less range anxiety or charging speed which bothers me but network reliability as well as charger availability.
for instance I stopped at trentham gardens near stoke. it's a Tesla station which according to the Tesla app all chargepoints bar 2 were working with over half a dozen free charge points. we got there at 1pm with very hungry 7 year old. despite what the app said and the fact that the lights were on the units, none of the new V4 chargepoints were working. this was for Tesla cars as well as none Tesla. add to that 2 none Tesla's had plugged into the V3s each car taking up 2 spots. Tesla owners were furious at them... I blame Tesla. the V3 chargers should not be opened to none Tesla cars which do not have the charge point in an accessible place.
but regardless.... we were unable to charge but had to feed the lad. I love EVs and don't want to go back but this is a very real probllem and will put many off owning an EV.
the network needs to be trustworthy. if the app says a chargepoint is working it needs to work
chargepoints all need to have a cable long enough to charge the cars they claim to support
and we need to have enough chargepoints such that there are not long queues.
this was a wet autumn Saturday (1 week ago today) not a BH. it was not a disaster for me. I called in a favour and dropped my car round a mates and he charged it for me over night but it could have been a pita which could have delayed our journey by an HR.
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It's more my personal circumstances - I bought my Polestar at the end of July but am only getting a charging point installed at home next week. I've been living off a 3-pin plug at both home and work, and my weekly drive between them is 150 miles each way, with 10 miles to work and back daily too.
Essentially, it takes the weekend at home to fully charge back up, and several days at work to do the same as I'm using it every day too. I do use public chargers here and there when I know I need to be more full than I am and the 3-pin won't hack it, but it's expensive and defeats the object of going EV so it's a last resort.
With my home charger installed it won't be as much of an issue - overnight charging at 7kw will be more than enough and my work charging is free so it'll all work out - it's just such a change after doing 2 decades of 700 mile tankfulls with 10 minutes to refill!
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whats the insurance on that ??? was looking for a car for the wife .. but went xc60 as her insurance would have doubled .. ?
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Currently I don't know - I was running a 2017 E-Class and wrote it off halfway through the insurance year. They didn't charge me anything more to switch to it so I guess I'll find out in January...
I have a 60kwh Model 3 and I've got no regrets not getting the long range. I've done loads of long (e.g. 400+ mile) trips and its fine, yes it charges slower than the LR but its not that much slower as its a more efficient car than the LR. It's pretty rare that I don't need to stop for a toilet break before the car runs out of charge which further eats into the LR's advantage.
What's also good about the charging curve is that as long as you have it in the right temperature range, it's initial charging power is always high, almost regardless of what SOC you have when you plug in. I've plugged in at 70% and got over 100kw and I was still getting 50kw at 90%.
Where the SR falls down is the 'I'm going a couple of hours in one direction where you wouldn't normally need to stop and then coming back' type scenarios. The LR stretches out those distances from 100-115 miles to 120-140 miles without having to stop and charge.
I also much prefer the charge curve on a Tesla where it is initially very fast before slowly throttling down over over the slower but flatter charge curves. It's very rare that I'd need to charge 10-80%, most likely I's just need to add 20-30% to get where I am getting so with Tesla upfronting the charge delivery means I can get on my way faster and it means cars turnover on the chargers faster.
The only reason I am swapping it for a long range Model Y is I need a tow bar and the SR Y doesn't have enough range when towing.
That site is BUSY on a Saturday and that's before the V4's were added and it was opened up to non-Tesla. That expanded site would be busy just serving Tesla at the weekends. If the V4's were down, I'd expect it was not a great experience.
Word has definitely got around to other EV owners how much cheaper the superchargers are than every other network, even paying the non-tesla tax. People are no doubt using that site instead of Apple Green at Keel services up the road at twice the price. There a few open sites which are getting mobbed by non-Tesla's now Trentham will be one but Trafford centre is worse, it's constantly mobbed with DPD vans charging, particularly first thing in the morning or just after the rounds have finished with staff cycling them onto the chargers constantly...
The best part is there are 21 type 2's in the same carpark and they are MORE expensive than Tesla superchargers even during their 4 hour peek pricing period.
There was a time where I used non-Tesla rapids but I've sacked that off for now (unless I am desperate), I've not paid more than 35p/kwh at Tesla for months now, all other rapids are at least 65p and many are 79-85p. Despite wholesale prices dropping in half over the last year, prices for public charging are still creeping up.
What's also good about the charging curve is that as long as you have it in the right temperature range, it's initial charging power is always high, almost regardless of what SOC you have when you plug in. I've plugged in at 70% and got over 100kw and I was still getting 50kw at 90%.
Where the SR falls down is the 'I'm going a couple of hours in one direction where you wouldn't normally need to stop and then coming back' type scenarios. The LR stretches out those distances from 100-115 miles to 120-140 miles without having to stop and charge.
I also much prefer the charge curve on a Tesla where it is initially very fast before slowly throttling down over over the slower but flatter charge curves. It's very rare that I'd need to charge 10-80%, most likely I's just need to add 20-30% to get where I am getting so with Tesla upfronting the charge delivery means I can get on my way faster and it means cars turnover on the chargers faster.
The only reason I am swapping it for a long range Model Y is I need a tow bar and the SR Y doesn't have enough range when towing.
That site is BUSY on a Saturday and that's before the V4's were added and it was opened up to non-Tesla. That expanded site would be busy just serving Tesla at the weekends. If the V4's were down, I'd expect it was not a great experience.
Word has definitely got around to other EV owners how much cheaper the superchargers are than every other network, even paying the non-tesla tax. People are no doubt using that site instead of Apple Green at Keel services up the road at twice the price. There a few open sites which are getting mobbed by non-Tesla's now Trentham will be one but Trafford centre is worse, it's constantly mobbed with DPD vans charging, particularly first thing in the morning or just after the rounds have finished with staff cycling them onto the chargers constantly...
The best part is there are 21 type 2's in the same carpark and they are MORE expensive than Tesla superchargers even during their 4 hour peek pricing period.
There was a time where I used non-Tesla rapids but I've sacked that off for now (unless I am desperate), I've not paid more than 35p/kwh at Tesla for months now, all other rapids are at least 65p and many are 79-85p. Despite wholesale prices dropping in half over the last year, prices for public charging are still creeping up.
This is great advice. I also like the LFP battery chemistry more. Always charge to 100%, safer if in impact and less risk of thermal runaway. I will take a small hit in energy density for that.
What’s a comfortable max usable range in your SR? How far would you drive (say a round trip where it wasn’t feasible to charge in a day).
I am starting to think the only reason i want the LR is for the AWD and faster acceleration.
I don’t know if this is worth £2k per year.
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I'd say 200 on a dire winters day up to 240 on a bright summers day, all @ 70mph/motorway, more if using slower roads.
The worst range I have out of it is ~190 miles (projected), but that was driving directly into a 70mph head wind from storm Eustice in 2022 (the one that took the roof of the Millennium dome). I had expected one stop from East Anglia up to Chester, stopping at Trentham Gardens after 180 miles. In reality I bailed out after 110 miles for a break as the roads were an utter mess with huge bits of debris flaying all over the place, that was some pretty exceptional weather that day.
In terms of a round trip without charging, as mentioned above, where the SR falls down compared to the LR is the 'I'm going a couple of hours in one direction and then coming back' where you wouldn't normally need to stop in either direction type scenarios. The SR you are looking at 100-115 miles and the LR stretches out those distances to 120-140 miles without having to stop and charge. In reality, if I was going further than that, I'd just stop and charge. Its not like you need to spend 30 mins doing a 10-80%, you only need to add what you need to get home. The 'volt and bolt' style stop is where the charging curve of a Tesla shines.
To answer your question, I probably wouldn't travel more than 3-3.5 hours in any direction if I was coming back the same day, 6-7 hours on the road in one day is more than enough and it would probably require 2 X 15 min charging stops.
The LR has a substantially better sound system than the SR, the one in the SR is fine but LR is on par with what you'd get having optioned the premium sound upgrade in the equivalent Merc or BMW etc.
The other thing to consider is that if you are a person that doesn't need to pee very often is that the LR will probably get to a charger further down the road than the LR on a really long trip. From where I live, if I stick to the supercharger network, the furthest I can actually get is about 180 miles in basically any direction before I need to stop and charge because of the locations of the chargers. For example, going north up the A1, Scotch Corner is 230 miles away from me, I wouldn't make it in Winter and leaves near zero wiggle room in summer. The next supercharger before then is Ferry Bridge at 180 miles. Its exactly the same situation up the M6, with almost identical distances but an LR would make it comfortably.
In theory the new Model 3 should have slightly more range than the one I have (circa 8-10 miles based on the WLTP rating difference (306 vs 318)).
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Well that’s a crap car rather than the range but anyway
Have you tried any other EVs ?
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Tbh a 190 mile trip is annoying when you have to stop (like in winter) versus summer when your car is on the limit. But then again getting fuel is rather tedious too. Who honestly needs to charge to 80% on a fast anyway. I use them the minimal amount I can.
Ps a model 3 LR and my cupra born seem to have a 200 mile range in real world in my experience. Don’t believe the hype. I also struggled to ever get more than 60kWh in two different model 3 LR despite claiming 75kWh batteries.