EV general discussion

[Kenai]

So does this mean I will need to setup the car to only charge between 23:30-05:30 because if it charges during the day it will cost the daytime rate instead of what it used to be?
If so Octopus have possibly shot themselves in the foot.

No, in simple terms it looks like it means you'll get 6 hours of cheap charging per day (whenever IOG chooses).

More than this sounds like it will incur full rate for charging use specifically.

Household will always be cheap overnight. Household will also be cheap whenever IOG scheduled any of your 6 hours outside of the overnight hours, if it did.

 

[cuke2u]

Having read it again it does suggest 12 hours of charging, irrespective of the time, is available every 24 hours at the 7p rate. Which is fine by me.

 

[Sinbad2000]

I'm still not sure about this.

What if they do an intelligent schedule that charges my car over 8 hours at 2kw instead of just 2 hours at 8kw? That's not something that's within my control (and I often see charging schedules with large blocks done at a lower power)

 

[Kenai]

Having read it again it does suggest 12 hours of charging, irrespective of the time, is available every 24 hours at the 7p rate. Which is fine by me.

It won't be 12 hours, as per the FAQs.

If we need to schedule more than 6 hours to reach your target charge, only the first 6 hours of charging will be at the discounted rate

 

[Sinbad2000]

Having read it again it does suggest 12 hours of charging, irrespective of the time, is available every 24 hours at the 7p rate. Which is fine by me.

Not in the email I got.

It very specifically says "Up to 6 hours of super cheap smart charging every 24 hours".

 

[chanjy]

You'll need to be integrated with IOG somehow though, if you use a dumb charger, you'll need a connected car - if you have neither, you'll surely not be able to partake in IOG at all anyway?

I can answer this... I have a dumb old Chargemaster thing and 2 EVs.

1 is connected to IOG as a device directly so Octopus controls charging through that
1 is not connected to IOG, so you only ever get the 6 hours overnight for cheap charging on that car

So a dumb charger won't be able to get round your 6 hours limit

 

[bigmike20vt]

You'll need to be integrated with IOG somehow though, if you use a dumb charger, you'll need a connected car - if you have neither, you'll surely not be able to partake in IOG at all anyway?

he has a zappi AND a dumb charger
alternatively for us as silly as it seems it may make more sense to remove the zappi from octopus, add my wife's i3 to be controlled directly (I think it's supported) and then charge my car which isn't supported using off-peak juice.

I am not going to do that. 80% of the time I will make it work for us without gaming it BUT it would be the obvious choice for us if we wanted to maximise the cheap electricity without breaking any rules.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I'm still not sure about this.

What if they do an intelligent schedule that charges my car over 8 hours at 2kw instead of just 2 hours at 8kw? That's not something that's within my control (and I often see charging schedules with large blocks done at a lower power)

I have seen people post this multiple times so I have no doubt it's true... but other than my car slowing down the rate when the battery is almost full.... in 2.5 years of charging 2 EVs I have never seen it charge at anything other than full bubble.

are you on a shared cable or something so your usage is being limited outside of octopus?

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I posted this post on the Tesla group, there were called out for being part of the problem.

In summary, you can get IOG slots for your house when plugging into another charger (public or otherwise) which is within the geofence of your house.

Likewise you can get IOG slots when you plug in the granny charger which isn’t plugged into the wall.

I presume they found this out because they don’t have a driveway and charge with a mix of granny charger across the pavement and a very nearby lamp post charger.

As I have discovered, when you do the IOG integration with the car, Octopus set a geo-location which is considered to be your house. If you're charging on a lamp post outside your house, this is inside the perimeter they consider to be valid.

Secondly, IOG only monitor the car is plugged in. They don't actually check to see if you're pulling power from the house. I have tested this: I plugged my UMC in at home, but just had it coiled up and not plugged into my 13A socket. And yes, Octopus gave me a smart charging schedule outside the usual 23:30-05:30 window. And yes, during that time period, even if my car isn't charging (because it's not plugged into the outlet), my house gets the 7p rate so I can charge up my house batteries.

 

[tom_e]

I have seen people post this multiple times so I have no doubt it's true... but other than my car slowing down the rate when the battery is almost full.... in 2.5 years of charging 2 EVs I have never seen it charge at anything other than full bubble.

are you on a shared cable or something so your usage is being limited outside of octopus?

I see it quite often. Possibly depends on local grid factors if not everyone gets it but yeah I've seen it knock my hypervolt down to 8amp even though there's just background usage in the rest of the house and my car is at a middling SoC.

 

[Kenai]

I have seen people post this multiple times so I have no doubt it's true... but other than my car slowing down the rate when the battery is almost full.... in 2.5 years of charging 2 EVs I have never seen it charge at anything other than full bubble.

are you on a shared cable or something so your usage is being limited outside of octopus?

This is standard behaviour for some smart chargers like the Ohme, it will sometimes schedule a 'low and slow' approach instead, which will cause problems as IOG will enforce charging durations rather than total consumption (to cut down on the 'get all my electric cheap' behaviour).

 

[Sinbad2000]

I have seen people post this multiple times so I have no doubt it's true... but other than my car slowing down the rate when the battery is almost full.... in 2.5 years of charging 2 EVs I have never seen it charge at anything other than full bubble.

are you on a shared cable or something so your usage is being limited outside of octopus?

Nope, not a shared cable. No usage limiting happening (I'm on a 100A breaker and never pull anywhere close to that). It's definitely a schedule based on grid demand in general.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Presumably it’s just Octpus managing the charging to get it done by the ready time.

Presumably if they are going to enforce the 6hr limit, they also need to schedule the charging to hit that charge limit in the 6 hours if the full 6 hours are needed.

 

[Sinbad2000]

Nope, not a shared cable. No usage limiting happening (I'm on a 100A breaker and never pull anywhere close to that). It's definitely a schedule based on grid demand in general.

/edit sorry ... damn... how do I resize that??!

That's my current smart charge schedule.

 

[bigmike20vt]

like I said please don't think I was doubting you. just wondering what the difference was why I have never seen it

 

[Sinbad2000]

like I said please don't think I was doubting you. just wondering what the difference was why I have never seen it

Of course, never thought that at all. I just wanted to show the extent of the possible problem

I wonder if it's a function of what charger you have combined with what car you have - ie, if you have a dumb(ish) charger that can't current limit, and your car's API doesn't allow current limiting, then you get full whack whenever it's scheduled?

 

[Haggisman]

It won't be 12 hours, as per the FAQs.

"If we need to schedule more than 6 hours to reach your target charge, only the first 6 hours of charging will be at the discounted rate"

Not in the email I got.

It very specifically says "Up to 6 hours of super cheap smart charging every 24 hours".

I guess it depends how pedantic you want to get with the semantics:

"If we need to SCHEDULE more than 6 hours to reach your target charge, only the first 6 hours of charging will be at the discounted rate"​

The 6 hours between 23:30-05:30 are not scheduled, they are fixed.

"Up to 6 hours of super cheap SMART charging every 24 hours".​

The 6 hours between 23:30-05:30 are not smart charging, they are standard fixed hours, smart charging is on top of that.

 

[Kenai]

I guess it depends how pedantic you want to get with the semantics:

"If we need to SCHEDULE more than 6 hours to reach your target charge, only the first 6 hours of charging will be at the discounted rate"​

The 6 hours between 23:30-05:30 are not scheduled, they are fixed.

"Up to 6 hours of super cheap SMART charging every 24 hours".​

The 6 hours between 23:30-05:30 are not smart charging, they are standard fixed hours, smart charging is on top of that.

I think this is fairly clear:

If we need to schedule more than 6 hours to reach your target charge, only the first 6 hours of charging will be at the discounted rate – extra half-hours will be charged at your Bump rate (even if they’re scheduled during the off-peak window).

 

[lordrobs]

So if a group of intelligent people like we have on here can't get to grips with what they are proposing does that mean A) Octopus has massively overcomplicated things or B) People are massively overthinking it?

As far as I can see the maximum duration discounted rate available from any of the suppliers is 6 hours. IOG Offers this maximum duration but with the added benefit that some of those hours may fall into timeslots where you are actually awake and using electricity. Scheduled tasks like running the dishwasher or washing your smalls can still be done overnight whatever the case.

So... business as usual for literally everybody unless you need to charge more than 42kWh ish in a 24 hour period in which case you are now worse off but at the same time on equal parity versus every other provider.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

you can get more than 6 hours from Ovo but you’ll pay 14p/kwh for it.

But otherwise yes, that’s a fair summary although I don’t struggle to get to grips with it