EV general discussion

jigger said:
TBH most people looking at X5s and the like today, seem to be renting them. I’ve haven’t driven an I pace, so can’t say how good they are, but an inefficient electric SUV would have to be outstanding in other ways before I’d consider buying one and for an SUV to be outstanding (at least for me) it would also have to be reasonably lightweight so by extension reasonably efficient.
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An I-Pace gives equivalent of about 110mpg. So inefficient is a relative term. For comparison that is about 4 times more efficient than an equivalent performance and sized luxury ICE SUV/Crossover.

The obsession with efficiency seems to be an EVangelical thing in my experience. But each to their own.

For the record, the I-Pace is known for having outstanding performance and handling for its size and weight. Better than many ICE and EVs that are a lot lighter.
 
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Simon said:
What’s the issue with inefficiency? Range or cost to run? Even 1m/kwh is half the price of fuel

You can’t have lightweight and a big battery either. So what’s the issue with a massive battery if efficiency is down due to the car (not the EV hardware )
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Range is the only issue for me. My Q8 Etron is about as inefficient as it gets, under 200 miles if charged to 100%, 160 miles if you stick to 80%. If there's a change of plans and I'm not fully charged it can catch me out. 99% of the time the range is a non-issue and charging is cheap so I don't care about inefficiency.

Actual long journeys I don't do often and find fast charging pretty painless. My iPace before was slower to charge and that could be annoying.
 
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ICDP said:
The iX3 starts at £58k. A hybrid Tuscon is not remotely in the same price bracket.
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I suppose it depends on the dealer, I was offered one for £54k. It also depends on you definition of bracket, but 43 is getting towards 54. Add a motor with 4x the power and battery 6x the capacity and you probably would have a £50k Hyundai.
 
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jigger said:
I suppose it depends on the dealer, I was offered one for £54k. It also depends on you definition of bracket, but 43 is getting towards 54. Add a motor with 4x the power and battery 6x capacity and you probably would have £50k Hyundai.
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I’m sorry but in no way is this even remotely a realistic argument. 43 is not getting near 54… because there is 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52 and 53 before you get to 54. Thats a lot before you are “getting 43 close to 54”.

Why make a mythical Tuscon when you can just use a Ioniq 5 as a comparison? Top end models of that are in around the lower end of a BMW iX3 price. Much more comparable but still very different demographics. Of course there will always be someone swayed but if you are looking at the luxury SUV end of the market, an Hyundai ain’t even remotely it.
 
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ICDP said:
I’m sorry but in no way is this even remotely a realistic argument. 43 is not getting near 54… because there is 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52 and 53 before you get to 54. Thats a lot before you are “getting 43 close to 54”.

Why make a mythical Tuscon when you can just use a Ioniq 5 as a comparison? Top end models of that are in around the lower end of a BMW iX3 price. Much more comparable.
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It’s a lot more realistic than the argument I responded to. The Ionic isn’t a two ton SUV and couple of tons of stuff is pretty expensive regardless of the badge.
As I said, a top end Hyundai SUV is getting close to iX3 money.
 
Minstadave said:
Range is the only issue for me. My Q8 Etron is about as inefficient as it gets, under 200 miles if charged to 100%, 160 miles if you stick to 80%. If there's a change of plans and I'm not fully charged it can catch me out. 99% of the time the range is a non-issue and charging is cheap so I don't care about inefficiency.

Actual long journeys I don't do often and find fast charging pretty painless. My iPace before was slower to charge and that could be annoying.
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Sounds like my EQC - 180 miles in winter averaging about 2.3 miles per kWh :D

As you say, still cheap as chips to run don’t doesn’t bother me in that respect but with two of them in the household it just takes a little bit more planning when it comes to charging, both on a daily basis for the overnight rate and on the rare long journey.

When I do need to public charge I just find the fastest one I can - I’ve saved so much money on electric I don’t care about the cost of it for the niche situation it is.
 
jigger said:
It’s a lot more realistic than the argument I responded to. The Ionic isn’t a two ton SUV and couple of tons of stuff is pretty expensive regardless of the badge.
As I said, a top end Hyundai SUV is getting close to iX3 money.
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The Ioniq 5 is actually a 2 ton SUV.

You also compared the “discount” price of the iX3 but gave the actual list price for the Tuscon hybrid. I can only assume this was an honest oversight and not some deliberate agenda?

Regardless, I know a top end Hyundai SUV EV is getting in to bottom end BMW iX3 SUV money. But that was not your point, you tried to claim £43k is not far off £54k.
 
Penfold101 said:
Sounds like my EQC - 180 miles in winter averaging about 2.3 miles per kWh :D

As you say, still cheap as chips to run don’t doesn’t bother me in that respect but with two of them in the household it just takes a little bit more planning when it comes to charging, both on a daily basis for the overnight rate and on the rare long journey.

When I do need to public charge I just find the fastest one I can - I’ve saved so much money on electric I don’t care about the cost of it for the niche situation it is.
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It’s all about personal preferences and needs really. When I picked the I-Pace in 2022 I knew it had slow charging and was inefficient, but it felt premium and great to drive and had decent range. Now that EV really did Brute Force its range with a large battery. Great car, mediocre EV. Similar to the EQC.
 
ICDP said:
They could have given it a 25% smaller battery of about 80kWh and it would be lighter and a bit more efficient (rivalling Tesla Model Y) and still give around 350 miles of combined driving range. But that was clearly not the design brief.
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They have done that with the iX3 40 - 82.6kWH battery and 300kW peak charging - it is just not currently for sale in the UK. This entire topic started not about your comments but the linked 1000km challenge, so when Bjorn does it in this version of the ix3 we'll see how pack size and charging impacts the results, in theory is should be more efficient but not sub 9 hours.
 
ICDP said:
The Ioniq 5 is actually a 2 ton SUV.

You also compared the “discount” price of the iX3 but gave the actual list price for the Tuscon hybrid. I can only assume this was an honest oversight and not some deliberate agenda?

Regardless, I know a top end Hyundai SUV EV is getting in to bottom end BMW iX3 SUV money. But that was not your point, you tried to claim £43k is not far off £54k.
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So you agree the demographics are actually similar.
 
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Journey said:
They have done that with the iX3 40 - 82.6kWH battery and 300kW peak charging - it is just not currently for sale in the UK. This entire topic started not about your comments but the linked 1000km challenge, so when Bjorn does it in this version of the ix3 we'll see how pack size and charging impacts the results, in theory is should be more efficient but not sub 9 hours.
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I wouldn’t expect it to be sub 9 hours but even Tesla doesn’t achieve those numbers.

The point being it is not brute forcing itself to beat 9 hours. The version tested had a large battery, good efficiency and great charging. That’s not brute forcing, that’s just good specs. Some would argue overkill but it’s not brute forcing.
 
jigger said:
So you agree the demographics are actually similar.
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No I don’t agree with that at as it is far more nuanced.

If you believe that, there is not a demographic that refuses to even consider anything outside of a marquee brand name, then that’s a you thing.

They are the demographic who would rather have an entry level iX3 over a top spec Hyundai for a similar price. For some it’s about the badge.
 
ICDP said:
No I don’t agree with that at as it is far more nuanced.

If you believe that, there is not a demographic that refuses to even consider anything outside of a marquee brand name, then that’s a you thing.

They are the demographic who would rather have an entry level iX3 over a top spec Hyundai for a similar price. For some it’s about the badge.
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There are plenty of people that wouldn’t consider a BMW either because BMW haven’t had the best reputation recently. It’s all a moot point anyway as BMW don’t really sell that many cars today, but rent them and this is where you do see a significant price difference for reasons I can’t explain. My point still stands though, a top end Hyundai is priced pretty close to a reasonably equivalent BMW.
 
jigger said:
There are plenty of people that wouldn’t consider a BMW either because BMW haven’t had the best reputation recently. It’s all a moot point anyway as BMW don’t really sell that many cars today, but rent them and this is where you do see a significant price difference for reasons I can’t explain. My point still stands though, a top end Hyundai is priced pretty close to a reasonably equivalent BMW.
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Why do you keep moving your goalposts? This is about your very specific claim that someone looking at a £58k iX3 EV, was also the same demographic who would be looking at a £43k Tuscon Hybrid. Please don’t quote your “but I could get an iX3 at £54k” because you can also get a discount on a Tuscon Hybrid.

They aren’t remotely in the same demographic.
 
Minstadave said:
Coming to the end of my NHS lease and options aren't amazing:

Q6 Etron Quattro
A6 Avant RWD version
BYD Sealion 7
Q4 Etron
BMW iX1 xdrive
MGS5 (dirt cheap)

The Q4 and iX1 are too small really.

Q6 Etron is the most expensive, A6 I've driven and felt a bit cheap inside, the BYD is almost tempting, need to go have a look at one in the flesh, theyre only 40k nearly new, tempted to just buy one.
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We're in a similar situation. After looking around all the options, Id' suggest also having a look at the latest French EVs. We went for a 5008 in the end, as we could do with the option of popping out the 7 seats quite regularly.
 
ICDP said:
Why do you keep moving your goalposts? This is about your very specific claim that someone looking at a £58k iX3 EV, was also the same demographic who would be looking at a £43k Tuscon Hybrid. Please don’t quote your “but I could get an iX3 at £54k” because you can also get a discount on a Tuscon Hybrid.

They aren’t remotely in the same demographic.
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We’ve just established they are actually similar, but ok...
 
Im getting the iX3 and it's a company lease (rental, essentially)

I'm absolutely not a badge snob, but what really swayed me to pick this over other potential options was the overwhelming glowing reviews that came out in December when the media got their hands on them in Spain.

However what has happened over time is that as cars get more options and tech, you tend to get used to having them. Chinese cars are often great in the cabin because a lot of them come loaded with stuff that often costs a fortune from European manufacturers. They mostly do lack that driver enjoyment though

I'm driving a glorified Kia at the moment (Genesis) but it has a lovely interior. It's accelerates stupidly quickly with the boost enabled, but It doesn't drive particularly well, it's a luxury barge.

It's my 11th car and will be my 3rd BMW though, which puts them above any other manufacturer I've had before.

So my primary reasons for the iX3 wasn't really the range, that's a nice bonus. It was the sporty drive, and similar power and tech that I'm accustomed to.
 
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