Everquest Next reveal today

Newbie007 said:
There is, its called Everquest and they have just released expansion number 18 I believe. Oh and apparently 1 of the aborted game designs was a graphically updated version EQ. SoE decided it would be financially viable (probably right too)
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What have all the recent failed MMOs taught us, Newbie?

Isn't it that the people who make decisions about "financially viability" literally don't have a clue? Financial analysts and business people can't design games because game design is art.

How many modern, "accessible" MMOs have fallen by the sword now? Must be into double figures by now ;)

Yet people like yourself continue to clamour for more "casual" games, that you can be done with in a month or two, and then move on to the next short-lived disaster. Don't you want something more?
 
FoxEye said:
What have all the recent failed MMOs taught us, Newbie?
Isn't it that the people who make decisions about "financially viability" literally don't have a clue? Financial analysts and business people can't design games because game design is art.

How many modern, "accessible" MMOs have fallen by the sword now? Must be into double figures by now
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To not release unpolished, bug ridden games with zero endgame and to not churn out 'wow killers' that are a carbon copy of WoW. It's no surprise that the game that has succeded recently is GW2.

It's nothing to do with catering to the 'casual gamer' at all (fyi these failures that you're counting have more subs than EQ in it's heyday)

FoxEye said:
Yet people like yourself continue to clamour for more "casual" games, that you can be done with in a month or two, and then move on to the next short-lived disaster. Don't you want something more?
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How do you know what sort of MMO gamer I am? Whilst I would love a new, updated EQ, would I be able to sink the time required into it? No, just like 80% of those clamoring for it. My life has moved on, I have a family now and can't farm/camp **** for 5/6 hours plus.

Take the rose tinted glasses off, EQ wasn't hard, it wasn't "punishing" (Corpse summon and 96% rezzes last time I played). Hell 90% of a raids healing core were bots that just needed to spam a cheal rotation. HC progression mode raiding in WoW (clearly one of these 'casual games' you're referring to) requires more skill & teamwork than anything seen in old-skool EQ.

Check out ArcheAge, by the looks of it the game style is right up an old poopsockers' alley like yourself :p
 
Newbie007 said:
To not release unpolished, bug ridden games with zero endgame and to not churn out 'wow killers' that are a carbon copy of WoW. It's no surprise that the game that has succeded recently is GW2.

It's nothing to do with catering to the 'casual gamer' at all (fyi these failures that you're counting have more subs than EQ in it's heyday)



How do you know what sort of MMO gamer I am? Whilst I would love a new, updated EQ, would I be able to sink the time required into it? No, just like 80% of those clamoring for it. My life has moved on, I have a family now and can't farm/camp **** for 5/6 hours plus.

Take the rose tinted glasses off, EQ wasn't hard, it wasn't "punishing" (Corpse summon and 96% rezzes last time I played). Hell 90% of a raids healing core were bots that just needed to spam a cheal rotation. HC progression mode raiding in WoW (clearly one of these 'casual games' you're referring to) requires more skill & teamwork than anything seen in old-skool EQ.

Check out ArcheAge, by the looks of it the game style is right up an old poopsockers' alley like yourself :p
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True a lot of EQ1 raiding was dictated by the mistake of adding Complete Heal to the game (once it was there events had to be balanced against it's use). But some of the fights in EQ1 were truly epic Rathe Council for one - where you needed to kill 12 raid mobs within 7 mins of each other - took a full raid (72 people) with multiple off tanks and enchanters - I've raided at the top level in eq1, eq2 and WOW and nothing matched the tension the first time we succeeded at that event - raid started at 12 midnight and the mobs went down at 8 am - there were no wipes it just took that long to get everything under control. people with time keys really stood out from the masses back then especially with the cockblocking and deliberate training etc that were a commonplace place in any progression guild /server.
The main thing I miss about EQ1 was that if you met someone who was max level you KNEW they could play because they would have months of real time /played. I wish I had the time (and patience) to play a game with the pace of EQ1 but it's time is gone and so too has any chance of similar community - WoW, EQ2 they'll never be the same because the world has moved on - it's faster and better looking but at it's heart it's missing the thing that made the original games great.

DinAlt
 
ColEx said:
The Holy Trinity is a group role setup of Tank, Healer and Dps.
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This. ^

It's also something people need to adjust from. Hybrid setup's that can be tailored to your preference are the way to go.
If you prefer to focus on healing then so be it, but don't make it so you're a super powerful can heal everyone at ease.

Also hybrid classes mean that others can help heal as the situation/fight progresses and different players get targeted.
 
Gazb said:
This. ^

It's also something people need to adjust from. Hybrid setup's that can be tailored to your preference are the way to go.
If you prefer to focus on healing then so be it, but don't make it so you're a super powerful can heal everyone at ease.

Also hybrid classes mean that others can help heal as the situation/fight progresses and different players get targeted.
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The trinity system is something tried and tested and work, going all the way back to pen and paper. Yes, hybrids still exist and have a place but removing the need on core roles puts the attention on individual people to care for themselves too much.

I still want to be able to tank, or heal outright and I miss those days and lack of games using it going forward. Luckily some new high profile games are still doing that.

I thought GW2 was going to be cool because of the difference and the priority that each person is responsible for their sole survival, but then it became really boring and cross-class teamplay felt really minor.
 
Holy Trinity
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The Holy Trinity refers specifically to the combination of Warrior, Cleric and Enchanter in Everquest that every group REQUIRED to be viable. Other classes started to become viable for the Tank, Healer or Crowd Control roles sometime between Velious and Planes of Power.

WoW came out after Planes of Power and near enough removed Crowd Control as a profession thus redefining the Trinity as Tank (of some form), Healer (of some form) and a bag of AFK DPS.

Anyway, it's good to see something being made that isn't a WoW clone (which was itself a dumbed down, polished to buggery EQ clone).

I liked the art style and the game looks to have some fresh ideas.
 
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Newbie007 said:
How do you know what sort of MMO gamer I am? Whilst I would love a new, updated EQ, would I be able to sink the time required into it? No, just like 80% of those clamoring for it. My life has moved on, I have a family now and can't farm/camp **** for 5/6 hours plus.
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The much-discussed concept of timesinks is one I find mildly amusing.

Do you want to play the game or not? Do you have spare time to play it or not?

Should they design MMOs these days for people who can only play an hour a day? 30 mins? How about those who can only play at the weekends, for a couple hours?

How do you not trivialise the game if you insist that nothing should take too long? Should the longest quest take only 30 mins? Should the longest raid take 30 mins?

I just don't get why people want to promote idea that the best games are the ones you don't need to put time into.

Seriously, if you choose not to invest yourself in an MMO, or if you can't invest because of your circumstances, why do you think you should be the one calling the shots?

Yes our generation got older and had families. But what about the generations after us? They've got time to burn like we had. Is it a case of you not wanting to play an MMO where you can't reach the top any more?

I invested myself in EQ. I can still remember the zone layouts for literally dozens of zones. They're mapped in my memory. You know why? Because there was no map - so I had to.

These days all games have GPS maps which show your position in real time. This is an example of games that say, "Hey, it's OK, you don't need to invest yourself. Just sit back and let me spoon feed you everything you want. It's your money pal!"
 
FoxEye said:
The much-discussed concept of timesinks is one I find mildly amusing.

Do you want to play the game or not? Do you have spare time to play it or not?

Should they design MMOs these days for people who can only play an hour a day? 30 mins? How about those who can only play at the weekends, for a couple hours?

How do you not trivialise the game if you insist that nothing should take too long? Should the longest quest take only 30 mins? Should the longest raid take 30 mins?

I just don't get why people want to promote idea that the best games are the ones you don't need to put time into.

Seriously, if you choose not to invest yourself in an MMO, or if you can't invest because of your circumstances, why do you think you should be the one calling the shots?

Yes our generation got older and had families. But what about the generations after us? They've got time to burn like we had. Is it a case of you not wanting to play an MMO where you can't reach the top any more?

I invested myself in EQ. I can still remember the zone layouts for literally dozens of zones. They're mapped in my memory. You know why? Because there was no map - so I had to.

These days all games have GPS maps which show your position in real time. This is an example of games that say, "Hey, it's OK, you don't need to invest yourself. Just sit back and let me spoon feed you everything you want. It's your money pal!"
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Do you still play EQ if you don't mind me asking?
 
Newbie007 said:
Do you still play EQ if you don't mind me asking?
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Nope. EQ today has "modernised" to include many of the features I hate. GPS maps, fast travel, instances, items aren't designed by hand anymore, etc, etc.

I could write an another essay, but I won't :p
 
Newbie007 said:
Do you still play 8bit games aswell on your nintendo?
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If that's supposed to be a legitimate counter-argument, you need to do better.

The things I discussed are design decisions. The choice, for example, not to have in-game GPS maps and player tracking is about choosing to make people aware of their surroundings.

Just because something is now technically possible, doesn't mean it's a good idea. I'm happy to see graphics engines progressing, so I'm not anti technology. But you are confusing technical progress with design choices, which are not always the same.
 
All 'gps maps' do is stop the need for you to go onto the internet and print of a player made version, it doesn't promote player behavior of making them aware of their surrounds at all.

Instances: How are these a bad thing?

Fast travel: Wizards/Mages/Druids/Teleport scrolls, etc etc, All have a standard and long time place in any fantasy setting. Why can't the arcane classes create items for all to use?

Items: See EQ Landmark

Seems to me as if you want to stay in the 'dark ages' for the sake of it, all the above are quality of life improvements.
 
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re: maps. You can't honestly believe what you just typed?

According to you, there is no difference between a printed roadmap and a satnav installed in your car.

And yes, in a medieval virtual world, what is the point in making everything convenience oriented like the real world?

I stand by my comment. Do you want to invest your time or do you not want to (or are unable to)? You are the same as the others. Want everything real quick, fast and easy.
 
Have to say I completely agree with FoxEye about the maps. In-game sat nav has pretty much ruined questing and has turned it into a repetitive game of fetch. Where's the fun in questing if you're told exactly where to go at every step. It would encourage grouping and socializing more if you had to ask people where to go, or finding it out for yourself(which would provide a greater sense of adventure).

Modern MMOs have improved in a lot of ways but I think a lot of the fun and sense of adventure has gone. I think they need to go back to basics in some areas and I think mapping and sat navs need to go. Maybe not completely, but they're way too helpful. Maybe make cartography a skill that you have to learn, so your map and navigation increases in accuracy the more you explore or something.
 
FoxEye said:
re: maps. You can't honestly believe what you just typed?

According to you, there is no difference between a printed roadmap and a satnav installed in your car..
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Your analogy is flawed though, in this instance an in-game map is the printed roadmap. You're driving without any sort of map at all.

If you're going to pick something from eq why not go for the class diversity, factions, levelling curve? Rather than something so trivial? Seems to me that your the type of person that picks the hardest path just to be prove how hardcore you are
 
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