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Agreed, it's probably very demoralising to have no 2 on the car when your team mate won it and you become no 2....... Think if I was mark I'd rather no 3 tbh.
F1 2011 season news / pre-season updates
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Agreed, it's probably very demoralising to have no 2 on the car when your team mate won it and you become no 2....... Think if I was mark I'd rather no 3 tbh.
LOL.
That's funny.
The public are told, "Webber is not the No.2 driver". Webber privately, knows he is No.2. And he even has a written reminder on the front of his car, that he is '2'.
In fairness, it shouldn't make any difference to the psyche of any driver. Alain Prost drove with No.2 on his car for Willilams in 1993 (as did Senna in 1994) and both were the No.1 drivers of the team.
Some drivers of course, are very superstitious (Mansell, prefered to drive with '5', painted red).
Weren't both Prost and Senna both No.2 because the team couldn't use No.1 on the car as the previous year's Driver's WC wasn't racing the following year?
Mansell won in '92 and then sulked off to IndyCar in '93 because Williams wouldn't meet his inflated pay demands and then Prost won in '93 and then promptly retired, in part because Senna had a contract for '94 with Williams and Prost wouldn't countenance having Senna as a teammate again. Damon Hill was lumbered with the 'number' 0 for both years and I seem to remember Prost saying that he wanted No.2 because "who wants to be a number zero?"
This is correct. Prost and Senna both declined to take No.0, which D.Hill took for himself in 1993 and 1994. Prost was particularly adamant that he would not race with No.0.
Soldato
Are you implying that Ferrari are a morally corrupt team employing the most hated driver in F1?Don't put it past a certain red team, should the wrong driver win the title
He may well be the most hated, but this is most likely because he is the best.
Unfortunately, in this country, people like losers and like to support underdogs. When you have a driver who is widely regarded as the best in the business, the British public tend to dislike him. This effect can be seen, not only with foreign sportsmen, but also with British sportsmen.
When Hamilton was the underdog and up against it, Hamilton was the hero that the British had been waiting for. He fought valiantly against the reigning world champ in 2007. In 2007, he went one better and won the title. The moment he became WDC, the press and British public began to look for flaws and any reason to show dislike towards him.
Ferrari pay the highest salary. As such it is no surprise that the best drivers gravitate towards Ferrari. I predict that Hamilton will also be driving for Ferrari, at some stage in his career.
...and unless RBR can produce a car which had a similar advantage to what they had this year, Ferrari (Alonso) and McLaren (Hamilton), could well embarrass the opposition next year.
Unfortunately, in this country, people like losers and like to support underdogs. When you have a driver who is widely regarded as the best in the business, the British public tend to dislike him. This effect can be seen, not only with foreign sportsmen, but also with British sportsmen.
When Hamilton was the underdog and up against it, Hamilton was the hero that the British had been waiting for. He fought valiantly against the reigning world champ in 2007. In 2007, he went one better and won the title. The moment he became WDC, the press and British public began to look for flaws and any reason to show dislike towards him.
Ferrari pay the highest salary. As such it is no surprise that the best drivers gravitate towards Ferrari. I predict that Hamilton will also be driving for Ferrari, at some stage in his career.
...and unless RBR can produce a car which had a similar advantage to what they had this year, Ferrari (Alonso) and McLaren (Hamilton), could well embarrass the opposition next year.
Soldato
I totally agree. I don't hate him. I admire him for his ruthless hunger to win. I also admired Kimi for his ruthless hunger for ice creams.
Yeah, classic British trait that. It wasn't just the England v Germany thing with Hill and Schumacher in the mid 90s; it was that Schumacher was the dominant, new post-Senna era driver and Hill was the plucky Brit.
I disliked Lewis almost as soon as he came into F1 if I'm really honest.
I didn't like the whole being given the support of McLaren for such a long time idea and walking into a top car made by a top team, compared to Alonso, Hill, Kimi etc. They all served apprenticeships at lower, poorer teams and had to work hard to get into a car to win the title. What does Lewis do? Ends his first season 2nd, 1 point from the title.
Soldato
Is he?
He won his first title in '05 when the Bridgestone tyres were incapable of getting a car onto the top step of the podium. He won his second title by the skin of his teeth, while carping about how his team weren't supporting him enough. He couldn't even beat a rookie (albeit a good 'un
) in '07. He needed a team-mate who would crash into walls on command to win a race in '08 (and admittedly took a pretty decent win the following weekend when everyone else fell apart). He was nowhere special in '09 (and made to look better by the team-mates he had).Even before his title win. Some folks point to '04, and say how good he was then. Until Flav and Jarno Trulli fell out, he was very much in the shade in the results table. Had the falling-out not happened, Jarno had every chance of beating Freddy that year.
I never have quite gotten why you seem to think that Alonso is 'the daddy' in F1. Because he just isn't. A great driver? Unquestionably. Fast, clever, adaptable. But he's far too easy to rattle, which has now cost him two titles ('07, '10) and nearly lost him another ('06).
That's not it at all. If that was actually true, then why do we still pay so much attention to those British drivers in years gone by who did win?
You love to argue...but that okay...so do I.
Out of the current crop of drivers, there is no question in my mind now that he is the best. I actually felt that after last seasons weak performance that Alonso was merely trading on past performance and that may be Hamilton had moved ahead of him. However, after what I witnessed in the 2nd half of 2010, I was truly blown away.
Alonso gave a master class to pretty much every F1 driver in the 2nd half of the season, by scoring more points than any other driver, in a car which was not the best (not easy to do, especially with so many other decent drivers in a decent cars).
When the current drivers in F1, were asked who they felt the "daddy" was, Alonso was voted as No.1. This is the equivalent of the player's player over the year, in football.
During the past few years, he was able to wrestle the title away from the previously unbeatable Ferrari/MSc. This is quite a feat. Winning in 2005 and 2006. In 2007, he finished joint 2nd. In 2008 and 2009 he had a bad car and in 2010, as soon as he had a decent car, he managed to finish 2nd in the title race. The only driver in F1 to be able to mix it with the Red Bull cars, which were way ahead of their rivals. In the last few years, Alonso has been the most consistent driver and what's more, he is able to do it with different teams. The same cannot be said about Hamilton...yet.
I would love to know who you think is better, cuz I can't see anyone else stepping up to the mark. Hamilton is the only one who can stand toe-to-toe with him. The rest of the field would always be playing catch up.
In 2010, he beat Massa by an enormous margin. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he out-qualified him 15-4. He did this to Massa, who was a pretty decent driver previously. To quote Dannyjo, Massa was "Alonso'd". He finished up more than 100 pts ahead of Massa. (even if you account for the Hockenheim race and give Massa the win, he still finished around 94 points ahead of Massa).
I honestly can't see how anyone can argue against the stats above. Even Hamilton admitted at the start of the year that his most difficult team-mate ever (in all formulae), was Alonso. This was stated while Button was sitting next to him, in a BBC interview.
Once a driver has quit the sport, people look at him, with rose-tinted specs. The hatred and vitriol vanishes.
A good example of my theory about underdogs is that in 2010 we saw MSc, where many Brits actually warmed to MSc. Could this have been due to the fact that MSc was merely a shadow of his former self? By my reckoning, had MSc returned as a dominant force (as he previously was), he would've been disliked, just as he was during his glory days.
Button seems to be liked by Brits a lot. My guess is that had he wiped the floor with Hamilton this year, this wouldn't have continued to be the case. Effectively, Button is now the underdog once again, as Hamilton is clearly a faster driver, so Brits are likely to support him. Had Button had the ruthless streak of MSc, Senna, Hamilton or Alonso...I doubt Button would be liked so much.
Note how much support Webber got this year. Could this have been because he was the underdog? Could this have been because he was the No.2 driver and that his team-mate was being given preferential treatment?
Brits love underdogs and losers more than they like winners. This has been shown to the be the case across so many sports.
Is he?
He won his first title in '05 when the Bridgestone tyres were incapable of getting a car onto the top step of the podium. He won his second title by the skin of his teeth, while carping about how his team weren't supporting him enough. He couldn't even beat a rookie (albeit a good 'un
Even before his title win. Some folks point to '04, and say how good he was then. Until Flav and Jarno Trulli fell out, he was very much in the shade in the results table. Had the falling-out not happened, Jarno had every chance of beating Freddy that year.
I never have quite gotten why you seem to think that Alonso is 'the daddy' in F1. Because he just isn't. A great driver? Unquestionably. Fast, clever, adaptable. But he's far too easy to rattle, which has now cost him two titles ('07, '10) and nearly lost him another ('06).
A LOT of sense spoken here. I thought Trulli was the better of the two until Trulli's abberation at Magny Cours in 2004. In 2005 not only was he lucky that Bridgestone had produced completely uncompetetive tyres but also had McLaren's car not been so fragile it was almost made of bone china then Kimi would have won that year by a decent margin. 2006 was a more reasonable representation of his talent but how hollow his rant at Monza that year about 'not any longer considering F1 as a sport' sounds given his behaviour this year now sounds!
2007 again he acted like a spoilt child unwilling to be upstaged by a talented rookie. He was complicit in the espionage to find out information regarding Ferrari's data and then - again acting as a spoiled brat - threatened his own team with going to the FIA about it when they refused to ask Hamilton to pull rank.
The guy is undoubtedly talented, but his attitude and demeanor both on and off the track do nothing to help endear him to the likes of me.
Soldato
Well, let us see....
Hamilton is just as quick, slightly less easy to psyche out these days, and seemingly rather more of a team player. Button is just as good at bringing a car home consistently, an order of magnitude more stable mentally, and also much more of a team player. Vettel has a truly stupefying turn of speed, especially on a do-or-die hotlap, and is young enough that he can expect to be at the peak of his powers when Alonso gets shipped to the retirement home. There's three drivers I'd aim to hire in front of Alonso.
On the evidence of the last few seasons, Alonso is not 'the daddy' at all. He's not the same driver that tore off four straight wins in the spring and summer of '06. He lost his head towards the end of that season, followed that up with a season where he well and truly lost control against the rookie Hamilton, and since then he's never looked the same. There have been flashes of serious speed, flashes of genius, days where he's looked untouchable....but nothing like as consistently as they used to appear before.
He's a great driver. But the best out there? Really not sure that's the case. Hell, if he was that good then he wouldn't have needed Ferrari to tug Massa out of the way in Germany. And he'd certainly have been able to get around ******* Petrov last time out. If Kamui 'Leeroy Jenkins' Kobayashi can overtake in a modern F1 car then I'm sure The Almighty Fernando Alonso™ ought to be able to do it with his superior skills behind the wheel....
Oh dear...
Rumoured 2013 F1 engine regs.
1.6l Inline 4 turbo.
88m bores
Direct fuel injection
100kg/hr fuel flow rate.
No boost limits mentioned though, but the fuel flow rate will limit that to a degree.
Shame that from watching GP2 and FPA, it will sound so dull. I wish there was some variation allowed. 1.6l turbo engine with any layout and a mandated maximum fuel flow rate. Imagine a 16000rpm turbo 1.6l V12.
[edit]
Just realised that this spec overlaps with the WRC engine spec, how long before the FIA get their standard engine across all series?
Rumoured 2013 F1 engine regs.
1.6l Inline 4 turbo.
88m bores
Direct fuel injection
100kg/hr fuel flow rate.
No boost limits mentioned though, but the fuel flow rate will limit that to a degree.
Shame that from watching GP2 and FPA, it will sound so dull. I wish there was some variation allowed. 1.6l turbo engine with any layout and a mandated maximum fuel flow rate. Imagine a 16000rpm turbo 1.6l V12.
[edit]
Just realised that this spec overlaps with the WRC engine spec, how long before the FIA get their standard engine across all series?
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Sauber to launch new car on 31st Jan - http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/12/11586.html
A poll was taken from the 12 team princples of F1, as to who the best driver in 2010 was.
Alonso was voted No.1
http://www.ferrari.com/English/Form...ls_rate_Fernando_Alonso_best_2010_driver.aspx
So lets see: The current crop of F1 drivers voted Alonso as the best driver, currently in F1. The current crop of team principles, voted Alonso as the best driver in F1.
I really can't see how an argument can be put forward to suggest that Alonso is not the "daddy" of F1.
For me, MSc passed this mantle on to Alonso in 2006. My belief in Alonso's ability wavered in 2009 and the 1st half of 2010, but his 2nd half of the year was simply stunning. You only have to look at the gap between himself and Massa (who is no mug).
Soldato
So how come he's not champion then? If he's the oh-so superior, master driver, best-guy-on-the-grid-by-miles type of person that you seem to think he is, how come some German kid in only his second season in a championship-capable car came from not leading the championship all year to beat him at the final round?
How come he couldn't even get past Petrov last time out, a driver who has not exactly shown us that he's a champion in the making? How come he needed Ferrari to pull Massa over to let him by in Germany? How come he made a complete ****-up of his strategy in Spa and then compounded that by dropping his car into a wall, while his former team-mate (one L. Hamilton) went on to win?
Can't blame the car - after all, a driver who's supposedly that good ought to be able to get around any deficiencies in that department and the Ferrari was hardly a starting-money special (or hobbled by tyres as in '05). Can't blame the team - he always has the option of dictating strategy and making decisions for himself. Can't blame his team-mate - he did the dutiful thing and made way for him. Can't blame officialdom - I seem to recall him getting the benefit of a bizarre decision in Monaco, after all. Nope, in the end it all boils down to an utterly limp performance in Abu Dhabi. He made a pretty ordinary start and lost out to Button, brushed the wall at Turn 19 on lap 15 and pitted for tyres, and then....well, proceeded to drive around for the remainder of the afternoon doing pretty much sod all in fact.
At any rate, until someone else wins the title then officially Vettel is 'the daddy', since it's his car wearing the big red '1' on it
Soldato
Probably all those wasted points from being unable to overtake Massa at the start of the season
Ah, but he's supposed to be 'the daddy'! Surely 'the daddy' could overtake his team-mate?
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