I too thought that they were being 'hung out to dry' by RB but at the same time their car does look awfully like the RB6 - do they still have access to the 'off the peg' chassis produced at the start of the year as it's technically by another company - Red Bull Technologies - but then they are left to do the development work themselves?
F1 - Bernie Ecclestone describes the new teams as an embarrassment
- Thread starter PinkFloyd
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I too thought that they were being 'hung out to dry' by RB but at the same time their car does look awfully like the RB6 - do they still have access to the 'off the peg' chassis produced at the start of the year as it's technically by another company - Red Bull Technologies - but then they are left to do the development work themselves?
I can't believe he's still banging on about a medal system. :/
If gold medals decided it, Jenson Button would have been crowned with four races still to go, and Kimi Raikonnen could have spun off in Brazil in 2007 and still won.
If gold medals decided it, Jenson Button would have been crowned with four races still to go, and Kimi Raikonnen could have spun off in Brazil in 2007 and still won.
Think a lot of it is down to the drivers.
Looking at Redbull - they have a very quick driver in Vettel and a very experienced driver in Webber.
Meanwhile STR have a rookie, and Buemi - the driver who seems to get mentioned the least out of any drivers! He could not start the race and I'd not even notice!
Would be interesting to see how they'd do with a different driver. I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing Lotus and Virgin dice with STR!
Soldato
As far as Kimi in '07 goes, you can bet dollars to donuts that if he'd fallen off the road in Brazil then Alonso would have challenged Massa for the win a bit harder and thus been crowned champion on countback (same number of gold medals with five each, but a greater number of silver medals with five against two).
Button in '09 - never mind with four to go, he had it won after Turkey in retrospect. But again, you can't look at it that way - drivers would have raced differently if you change the circumstances in that manner.
Man of Honour
Bernie keeps harping on about how many other sports use medals and then completely fails to spot one vital point. There isn't a sport out there which uses medals to determine who is most successful over a number of events.
You use medals for one off events and points for championships.
You use medals for one off events and points for championships.
He has a short memory. Does anyone remember Life, Pacific, Simtek, Forti in the 90s? It wasn't uncommon for them to be 5+ laps down with amusingly stupid drivers like Badoer and Deletraz. Or Lola that didn't qualify at all in 97...
The old Lotus team went from championship winning during the turbo era to struggling near the back of the field in 1994 before going bust.
The old Lotus team went from championship winning during the turbo era to struggling near the back of the field in 1994 before going bust.
Soldato
Accusing Bernie of having a short memory, and then posting that....
FYI - Team Lotus last won the drivers and constructors titles in '78, with Mario Andretti and the ground-effect Lotus 79. This car had no turbo. In fact, the only turbo car in the field was the Renault RS01, and they didn't even enter all the races with it anyway (missed the first two fly-aways). Lotus won races during the turbo era, but never looked likely for the championship despite the brilliance of Senna.
Deniz! classic
Accusing Bernie of having a short memory, and then posting that....
FYI - Team Lotus last won the drivers and constructors titles in '78, with Mario Andretti and the ground-effect Lotus 79. This car had no turbo. In fact, the only turbo car in the field was the Renault RS01, and they didn't even enter all the races with it anyway (missed the first two fly-aways). Lotus won races during the turbo era, but never looked likely for the championship despite the brilliance of Senna.
Sorry. I wasn't around then, I should have just said the 70s. That better?
Also, I didn't say Lotus used turbos, I said they were top flight in that time.
Just for those who don't know who Deletraz is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toy75AmsAEQ
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Sorry. I wasn't around then, I should have just said the 70s. That better?
Also, I didn't say Lotus used turbos, I said they were top flight in that time.
Just for those who don't know who Deletraz is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toy75AmsAEQ
Brilliant
Associate
ha.
Soldato
They're not that bad really, if you look at some of the F1 team efforts over the years. Andrea Moda, Life, the Mastercard Lola debacle....if they can't progress to challenge the midfield next season, then we need to start asking why they're actually there. Until then, they at least are all going to see the season out which is more than can be said for other new entrants in the past.
Associate
What would be worse is if two of the teams make a leap forward and one is left behind.
I have to say, I thought the Virgins had been better than the Hispanias, but according to the standings, Chandhok and Senna have both had better finishes than Di Grassi/Glock, and are therefore above them in the tables!
Consistency should be rewarded, not a handful of decent drives amongst the many.
Perhaps, but I think the very nature of how the title was won last year demonstrates how poor I think a medal system would be. Button certainly did most of the work to seal his title by winning six of the first seven races, but the fact is, he needed the consistent points finishes in the rest of the season to guarantee it. Using medals, he could have spun off for every race after June and still won. How would that deserve reward? Likewise, Red Bull would never have let Webber win the German GP, not when Vettel already had two wins. Or Rubens, who was in the hunt the entire season, would have basically had to give up hope even before his first win, as he'd have faced the impossible task of trying to win all seven remaining races, in a car that was no longer the fastest.
Consistency should be rewarded, not a handful of decent drives amongst the many.
Soldato
I think the new teams have shaped up really well.
BAR, remember them with all their we will win in our first season etc promises.
Lets face it F1 is the pinacle, even if you have the best car you still need the team, the drivers, the luck even to perform in your first season.
As long as each season sees a steady improvement then its great to have them there.
I would like to see new teams given a slight break on the development/testing regime. In fact maybe allow all teams after say race 3 that have no points some limited testing for say 2 weeks. Repeat after race 4, rinse repeat. Maybe by halfway in the season allow any teams not in the top 5 (team points not drivers) some limited testing. By that point its obvious who the serious contenders are, eg this year would have been red bull, ferrari, mclaren, mercedes + another. A small amount of testing wouldnt have meant that Williams or Lotus were suddenly going to win the championship.
BAR, remember them with all their we will win in our first season etc promises.
Lets face it F1 is the pinacle, even if you have the best car you still need the team, the drivers, the luck even to perform in your first season.
As long as each season sees a steady improvement then its great to have them there.
I would like to see new teams given a slight break on the development/testing regime. In fact maybe allow all teams after say race 3 that have no points some limited testing for say 2 weeks. Repeat after race 4, rinse repeat. Maybe by halfway in the season allow any teams not in the top 5 (team points not drivers) some limited testing. By that point its obvious who the serious contenders are, eg this year would have been red bull, ferrari, mclaren, mercedes + another. A small amount of testing wouldnt have meant that Williams or Lotus were suddenly going to win the championship.
Associate
Everyone forgets Lotus and Virgin pace is on par today as rest of the midfield was at the starts which also within 7% including HRT. I love Virgin because they are going about racing in very different way to everyone else pioneers of CFD in motorsport leading the way moreso than the namesake Lotus.
Soldato
Bernie's hair is an embarrassment to the BBC.
Interestingly both Webber and Alonso started their careers in teams which were further off the pace than the current new teams.