F1 fans getting bored?

arknor said:
so jenson cant adjust his driving style?
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Seemingly not this season, as said he's using different brake pads to generate heat. F1 changes, some years drivers just don't get on. He really should have gone testing as he was struggling, Hamilton didn't need to so they could still of done simulator work.

Still early in the season and I believe it's only been two races with the different brake compounds.
 
The Jenson is easy on his tyres statement is just another Brit media created myth. How do brake pads affect tyre temps out of interest?
 
Because the brakes run at up to 1000 degrees and radiate heat into the wheel and then into the tyre.

They offer as much, if not more heat generation than the lateral loads on the rubber from cornering. Button is using Hamiltons pads in attempt to get the brakes hotter as they are a compound that generates more heat. I don't know if he has only swapped pads though, as they both used to use different discs too.
 
I'd like to see different tyres to be honest. Longer lasting tyres I think help the sport because of the possibility to see different driving styles and in particular the guys who are hard and aggressive.

Whatever happens, been a Mclaren fan my whole life so go Mclaren!
 
Skeeter said:
Your making the assumption that everyone does qualifying Sims on Saturday, and diesnt change their cars before qualifying.
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the actual lap times were comparable in p3 to q1 I seem to recall

So yes I think its a reasonable assumption

As there are different allocations of tyres for each car in each session, unless a crash happens , most cars tend to use both sets of tyres available in each practice session
 
The problem is people are making a LOT of assumptions about things Jenson has said, problem is he's just an excuse maker.

The only car that really talked about heat in tyres afaik was Ferrari pre/early season, and BOTH cars had serious trouble, at the testing preseason and the first races the two Ferrari's were all over the road, off the road, struggling in every single corner, they clearly had no grip, and they've seemingly fixed it.

Button has complained about things no one has seen. he does laps with no mistakes, he's not fighting the car hard to keep it on the track like we saw Alonso doing, Hamilton has had zero issues, Button is simply an excuse maker.

Discount the excuses he comes up with, and I don't think it's even a problem. Just about every single car out there(except for Jenson supposedly) is trying to save tyres, which generally means, keeping temps down and pushing less hard. So 23 cars are going easy in corners to keep tyre temps and wear down.... but Jenson is only slow because he can't heat the tyres up, complete rubbish. As for locking up, he's had plenty of lock ups this year in earlier races without the "new brakes" and sorry, if a professional racing driver who is making what, 5+mil a year can't adjust to new brakes within one testing session, let alone 2 entire race weekends.... he's either completely and utterly incompetant or it's an excuse.

Now he's making another excuse, which is essentially, the fan's don't like it, unpredictability is boring, let me have an easier car to drive again that makes me look less bad. At least that's how it sounds to me, because boring and unpredictability don't go together, completely predictable and boring go together very very well. yet another time Button is saying something that defies both logic, and everything we can see from every other driver.
 
Katsumoto said:
I'd like to see different tyres to be honest. Longer lasting tyres I think help the sport because of the possibility to see different driving styles and in particular the guys who are hard and aggressive.

Whatever happens, been a Mclaren fan my whole life so go Mclaren!
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I really don't think this is the issue.

We had super durable tyres in the Bridgestones that could last an entire race and everyone complained they were boring.

The issue isn't just the tyres themselves; it's the two tyre rule and the 'race on the tyres you qualified with' rule.

What I think they need to do is scrap these two rules, create a hard tyre that can last half the race but at a slower pace and a soft tyre that is much faster but can only go a quarter or a third of the race distance.

We've seen glimmers of how exciting/interesting it can be for cars to run different race strategies and I'd like to see more of it.

I expect the top teams will run the same strategy for most races anyway, but having more options should surely create more unpredictability.
 
Panzerbjorn said:
The issue isn't just the tyres themselves; it's the two tyre rule and the 'race on the tyres you qualified with' rule.
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This.

People keep bashing on about needing harder tyres and its like they have completely forgotten the late Bridgestone tyres. Giving teams tyres that last longer wont mean they all suddenly push harder, they will just run longer stints managing the tyres in exactly the same way.

The only way you will stop is to either bring back refuelling, which the FIA wont do, or set the tyre rules so that there are options that allow for additional pit stops. At the moment with the 2 compound rule there isn't enough options available to allow this.

The solution is to drop the 2 compound rule and the start on your qualifying tyres rule, and also give each car 2 (or more) additional sets of tyres that have to be handed back after qualifying. This will stop the boring Q3's where people sit it out, and also allow more strategies in the race like running all Prime, all Option, or mixing it up.

Making the tyres harder will just mean things stay as they are, but with fewer pit stops.
 
How about having three tyre types instead of four and teams can use any of the three during the race, so can either just use the softest with several stops or do a non-stop race on hardest for example.
 
Duke said:
How about having three tyre types instead of four and teams can use any of the three during the race, so can either just use the softest with several stops or do a non-stop race on hardest for example.
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Having just 2 types with a large gap would do the same. Non stop on hard or 2 stops on softs or 1 stop using both?

At the moment, with the tyre rules as they are limiting cars to fewer softs and forcing them to start on them (for the top 10 at least), pretty much everyone is forced into the same strategy, be it Soft/Hard, Soft/Hard/Hard, or Soft/Hard/Hard/Hard. And there is no motivation to push as you will never make up the time to cover an additional stop.

Take Monaco for Example. 80 laps, The hard could just manage 50 laps while the soft could just manage 30 laps. Overtaking is impossible so you want to go for as few stops as possible with the best qualifying possible. The obvious strategy is therefore start on softs, run them as long as possible, then swap to hards, and run them till the end. Don't push to hard and require an extra stop. If, however, the teams didn't have the tyre rules they could qualify on softs to get the best position, and then do two 40 laps stints on the hard tyre in the race. They wouldn't be pushing the tyres to the limit so could push the car more. Plus, anyone who has a car that is light on its tyres could be rewarded by doing a soft tyre stint if they felt they could make them last. This is the strategy variations that we are missing.

The 2 tyre compound and start on your tyres rules come from a time when F1 had refuelling. Now that it has gone the rules are redundant.
 
It's much better being close, unless you are in a traditionally rich team.

It means it's not about money even tho there is no budget cap. A mistake by a driver means so much more, a perfect weekend for both car and driver of a lower team can equal a win.

I think that's good. Before if you were in a lower team and had a perfect weekend and a higher team made a mistake or 10 they could still win. Not anymore.

People who are moaning are mainly top team fans, who, let's face it, expect wins, so will only ever be satisfied or disappointed!
 
Skeeter said:
Because the brakes run at up to 1000 degrees and radiate heat into the wheel and then into the tyre.

They offer as much, if not more heat generation than the lateral loads on the rubber from cornering. Button is using Hamiltons pads in attempt to get the brakes hotter as they are a compound that generates more heat. I don't know if he has only swapped pads though, as they both used to use different discs too.
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I dread to think how much heat they give off, I can keep myself warm in the winter near a carbon brake set on a A320 after landing and that's one short length of braking. The rims are much further away as well and I've burnt my hand on one thinking it had cooled enough.

The constant braking in an f1 car without ABS much transfer miles more heat than I'd even considered. :) I never thought of it providing more temp than cornering but thinking about it I can see how that's possible.
 
I think the racing is good. I think maybe qualifying tyres should be brought back, but not just for the top ten in the final shoot out. If a durable but extremely soft tyre could be brought in by Pirelli that would be good I think.
 
agentjohn88 said:
I think the racing is good. I think maybe qualifying tyres should be brought back, but not just for the top ten in the final shoot out. If a durable but extremely soft tyre could be brought in by Pirelli that would be good I think.
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What would be the aim of such a tyre? Genuine question, not a dig. There are a lot of ideas about tyres about and its good to discuss them.

Personally I think they should have a specific allocation of tyres for qualifying to stop the stupid not setting a time rubbish, but I'm not sure on a specific qualifying compound.
 
Just something to stop drivers setting only sector times in Q3. A qualifying tyre would mean that teams would have nothing to loose by going out an pushing in Q3. Tyres being allocated just for qualifying as is already the case with Practice would work exactly the same.
So I guess a qualifying tyre isn't essential just better tyre allocation regulations.
 
Personally I think this is one of the best seasons so far in years, with only Monaco being a low point, but then that's to be expected from a racing point of view.
 
I'm bored, of the wait for the race.

People complain when the leading team has a 1second lead, then they complain when the teams are split by a couple of tents and as such.
One car suits a certain style track and wins, someone does a perfect quali lap and gets poll.

The tyre stuff is nonsense, that is not why we are seeing these results. You can if you wish say that they aren't pushing the cars 100%, but the tyres are part of the cars and are being pushed.

The reason this season is turning out like it is, is because the pack is so close.
Even mclarens pit stop woes, in past seasons, probably wouldn't of lost them the lead.
 
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