Failures of West in Eastern Europe

4K8KW10 said:
Nothing has changed. The European Commission issues statements with some remarks but no serious action on the issues.
The National governments simply ignore the European Commission or the report is so weak, to say, that they will just move on undisturbed.
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It's a matter for the people of those countries ultimately, there are sanctions the EU are able to impose (as signed up to by all members) but they are naturally limited in effect. I don't know but I expect there is a path to removing a member due to serious and persistent rule violations but it isn't likely. It was only in the treaty of Lisbon that "Article 50" was added (withdrawal from the EU) so it's possible there doesn't even exist a formal process yet.
 
This is not
Dave M said:
You believe poland, romania, bulgaria are banana republics?
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4K8KW10 said:
I will leave the comments for you after seeing the reality there - this is common in at least one state of the aforementioned:
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Spent some time in Romania, it's different to here for sure. If you think bad roads and old concrete tower blocks are the definition of a banana republic though you don't really know what you're talking about. Actually it's rather insulting having grown up in former mining towns through the 70s and 80s - we're no better than anyone else. However I do have a particular loathing for the criminal element in these countries taking advantage of the benefits the EU has given them.
 
Dave M said:
This is not



Spent some time in Romania, it's different to here for sure. If you think bad roads and old concrete tower blocks are the definition of a banana republic though you don't really know what you're talking about. Actually it's rather insulting having grown up in former mining towns through the 70s and 80s - we're no better than anyone else. However I do have a particular loathing for the criminal element in these countries taking advantage of the benefits the EU has given them.
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Banana republic:

Typically, a banana republic has a society of extremely stratified social classes, usually a large impoverished working class and a ruling class plutocracy, composed of the business, political, and military elites of that society.[2] The ruling class controls the primary sector of the economy by way of the exploitation of labour;[3] thus, the term banana republic is a pejorative descriptor for a servile dictatorship that abets and supports, for kickbacks, the exploitation of large-scale plantation agriculture, especially banana cultivation.[3]

A banana republic is a country with an economy of state capitalism, whereby the country is operated as a private commercial enterprise for the exclusive profit of the ruling class. Such exploitation is enabled by collusion between the state and favored economic monopolies, in which the profit, derived from the private exploitation of public lands, is private property, while the debts incurred thereby are the financial responsibility of the public treasury. Such an imbalanced economy remains limited by the uneven economic development of town and country, and usually reduces the national currency into devalued banknotes (paper money), rendering the country ineligible for international development credit.[4]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

This description fits ideally for some states in Europe.
 
Enkore said:
I have been following the situation in eastern Europe for a while now and I'm seeing a very dangerous trend. Ultimately the in-depth expansion into post warsaw pact countries has led to insane strain on EU. I am sure that if it was not for that expansion - UK would still be in the EU. Now we have further issues, not only countries like Poland and Hungary are insane beneficiaries of EU funding - they are also turning away from EU values towards far right.
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Perhaps as ex-Soviet colonies they're just more aware of what Communism looks like?

We keep hearing about the far right "populist" threat from the likes of the EU, those evil nationalists.. last night Trump was asked to denounce an alleged "far right" group who very few people have even heard of but the same people ignore the fact that "far left" groups like Antifa and BLM who openly promote Communism have been destroying cities, homes and businesses. Why don't they want Biden to denounce those groups? why are far left looting/riots, intimidation against people trying to go about their daily lives called peaceful protests?

 
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mmj_uk said:
Perhaps as ex-Soviet colonies they're just more aware of what Communism looks like?

We keep hearing about the far right "populist" threat, those evil nationalists.. last night Trump was asked to denounce a nationalist group but the same people ignore the fact that "far left" groups like Antifa and BLM who openly promote Communism have been destroying cities, homes and businesses. Why don't they want to denounce those groups? why are far left riots called peaceful protests?

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I gave up within a minute, the first 'facts' are false. the soviet politburo is in no way equal to the EU commissioners - who are appointed by democratically elected governments.
 
Dave M said:
I gave up within a minute, the first 'facts' are false. the soviet politburo is in no way equal to the EU commissioners - who are appointed by democratically elected governments.
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So easily?!
But the video is right.

You have to reply to the banana republic description that I was so kind to provide here.

Dave M said:
Spent some time in Romania, it's different to here for sure. If you think bad roads and old concrete tower blocks are the definition of a banana republic though you don't really know what you're talking about.
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The poor roads and "old" low-quality concrete apartment buildings in which many still burn coal and timber for winter heating are a proof for this extremely evident social stratification, yes, it's in the description.
 
CANUK is the political force of the future. Common language, values and political systems make CANUK a better fit for the UK then the EU ever was (apart from geography).
 
I continue to find it hilarious that there are people that view the EU, with the free-st (admittedly internal) market on the planet and run by centre-right, neoliberals (a right-wing platform) as socialist or amusingly, communist. It's almost as bad as thinking that globalism is a left-wing policy, embarrassing. Literally railing against one of the purist forms of capitalism there is, yet still defend the ideology... through all the contradictions.

YouTube continues to prove it's idiosyncratic worthlessness.

Just to make reasonably sure, it should be noted that intense immigration control is a market intervention, and since it will fundamentally never be controllable... you're forced to either
  • always expand it pointlessly,
  • pretend it works when it doesn't (we're here), or
  • abandon it to let capitalist principles do their jobs.
/Can't believe I have to defend the thing, what you guys want is unironically closer to what China or Russia represents.
 
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Superficial said:
I disagree - expansion yes but simply for free trade - which is of immense benefit.

Freedom of movement was not a smart idea for any EU nation not of a similar proportional equivalance (to western Europe) in per capita GDP...all freedom of movement did was drain Eastern Europe of their best and brightest and fuel xenophobia.

Don't get me wrong a simplified 'visa' process should have been part of it but for skilled migrants we require as with all nations.

As for additional funding this should have been tied more strictly to towing the EUs political lines
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For me the bigger issue is not economic but rather allowing people into the country that don't share Western civilised values such as a respect for women or freedom of expression and therefore cannot be integrated into society, that's where the real danger lies.

The proportion of some demographics that think we should implement sharia law or that suicide bombing is justifiable is very disturbing and directly conflicts with our society. I wouldn't put any limits on the number of immigrants but you definitely have to be picky about who you let in, it's more than skills you have to think about but morals/values as well. Immigration can be economically and culturally enriching when controlled properly.

StriderX said:
I continue to find it hilarious that there are people that view the EU, with the free-st (admittedly internal) market on the planet and run by centre-right, neoliberals (a right-wing platform) as socialist or amusingly, communist. It's almost as bad as thinking that globalism is a left-wing policy, embarrassing. Literally railing against one of the purist forms of capitalism there is, yet still defend the ideology... through all the contradictions.

YouTube continues to prove it's idiosyncratic worthlessness.

Just to make reasonably sure, it should be noted that intense immigration control is a market intervention, and since it will fundamentally never be controllable... you're forced to either
  • always expand it pointlessly,
  • pretend it works when it doesn't (we're here), or
  • abandon it to let capitalist principles do their jobs.
/Can't believe I have to defend the thing, what you guys want is unironically closer to what China or Russia represents.
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It's obviously not communist but protectionism is a left wing policy and the EU has plenty of that so it's not exactly a right wing free market utopia.
 
4K8KW10 said:
But you will never see it in Germany, Austria, the Netherlands where every road is either perfect or with small defects but nothing like the gigantic ugliness on these images. lol
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I guess you've never been to Germany either? They under-invested in infrastructure for years and now have real problems. Part of this was due to the integration of the east but not all - the obsession with having a fiscal surplus has made public investment in infrastructure next to impossible.
 
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The European Parliament today voted in favour of a Resolution strongly criticizing the situation in EU member state Bulgaria.

Parliament regrets the “significant deterioration” of democracy, the rule of law and fundamental rights.

In a resolution adopted with 358 votes in favour, 277 against and 56 abstentions, MEPs express their “unequivocal support for the people of Bulgaria in their legitimate demands and aspirations for justice, transparency, accountability and democracy”. They condemn the police violence and “disproportionate intervention”, in particular any use of force against women and children and journalists, as well as the “unlawful and excessive audits” into private businesses that support the protests.


European values under threat


The text notes a “significant deterioration of respect for the principles of rule of law, democracy and fundamental rights, including the independence of the judiciary, separation of powers, the fight against corruption and freedom of the media”. It focuses also on persisting systemic issues in the judiciary, especially the lack of a framework to hold the Supreme Judicial Council and the Prosecutor General accountable.


Other concerns include:

  • constitutional reform, which should be in line with international standards
  • possible changes to electoral law, close to the next parliamentary elections
  • legislation adopted too hastily
  • investigations into high-level corruption without tangible results
  • the state of fundamental rights, e.g. as regards hate speech, gender and sexual discrimination, the rights of Romani people and asylum seekers.

Media freedom and EU funds


MEPs condemn smear campaigns and violence against journalists. They are deeply concerned by the deterioration in media freedom, transparency and the lack of diversity in media ownership, and worried that EU funds are allegedly more likely to be given to government-friendly outlets. They highlight the need for stricter controls on EU spending and want concerns over taxpayers’ money being used to enrich those close to the ruling party to be addressed immediately.
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https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...ues-to-be-fully-and-unconditionally-respected
 
The Polish also see the reality and speak out - some states in the EU are not going well, by the looks of it:

'REVIEW': PREMIER IS NAKED
https://wydarzenia.interia.pl/swiat/news-przeglad-premier-jest-nagi,nId,4790459

Translation:

Today Bulgaria is the new Third World - the lowest incomes, the greatest social inequalities, demographic catastrophe.

The Prime Minister sleeps with his arms by his bedside and keeps thousands of euros in cash and gold bars in his bedside cupboard. Daily protests have been going on in the streets for almost three months. Here is a postcard from last summer in Bulgaria.

The restaurant model of the market system introduced in Bulgaria after 1989 brought the collapse of civilization to the country and society without precedent in the whole, lasting more than 1.3 thousand. years of Bulgarian statehood. A third of Bulgarians have emigrated, industry basically does not exist, agriculture is in the hands of several oligarchic families, health care and education are in a state of permanent collapse, infrastructure is crumbling, almost nothing that is public, not working, the province is completely depopulated, secondary illiteracy has for good in the Roma community. One glance at the indicators compiled cyclically by Eurostat is enough to realise that today's Bulgaria is the new Third World - the lowest incomes, the greatest social inequalities, the demographic catastrophe.


Of course, all this did not happen suddenly. Now, however, mass demonstrations that have not descended from the streets of Sofia and several major cities for almost 90 days are a reminder of this; solidarity protests are also take place in the UK, France, Germany, Spain and several other major centres of Bulgarian new emigration.


Where is the Union?
....
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