Fake hate crime: Jussie Smollett paid two Nigerian brothers to attack him

Raymond Lin said:
Tell me, when was the last time you've seen any investigation where the police published daily updates on progress and laid out all the evidence to the public?

I'll tell you when.

Never.

You can read between the lines. You can read between the lines that all the people involved are now locked up, facing years behind bars or in immunity deals. You can see that as "innocence until proven guilty", or you can see it as a sign that there is something going on.

I am sure, with your conspiracy brain who thinks Clintons is some deep underworld crime lord won't take much to convince there is something going on here with Trump. Why is it so hard for you to struggle to come up for conspiracy for Trump when there are so many, but it is so easy for you to come up with something when there are so few?

If you REALLY do take the whole innocence until proven guilty then Clinton and Obama are whiter than white as there has been no conviction is there? Hell, if you count the number of lawsuits she lost/settled compare to Trump...it's not even a contest.

So you can either wag that innocence until proven guilty stick on everyone or are you only holding it for Trump ?
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Lmao. So you start off with implying no evidence is leaked to the public, which is true it mostly isn't. And you still insist that it's a fact because you can 'read between the lines'. Nice one. imagine if someone like you ever made it to becoming a Judge. Yeah what were a lot of those people locked up for? Collusion with Russia? Nope. And yeah "All the people involved", what is it like 3/4 on unrelated charges?

If you REALLY do take the whole innocence until proven guilty then Clinton and Obama are whiter than white as there has been no conviction is there?
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I do? Where have I ever made any claims about Clinton and Obama? What are you talking about? I'm inferring that you're assuming I hate Clinton and Obama? Why?

Do you not take innocent until proven guilty seriously? If so, why not?

I know you've immediately jumped to loads of conclusions about me. And not even for 'supporting trump' but just merely for not immediately condemning him as guilty guilty guilty. You reek of a man with a pitchfork, frothing at the mouth baying for blood. If he's found to have done it, then fair enough, lock him up. But until conclusive credible evidence appears and he's convicted, I'll sit on the fence. You need to seriously reassess your prejudices.
 
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Mason- said:
Oh please do enlighten us with your security clearance Mr D.P. who works for the FBI. It goes both ways.

Anyone who peddles that the collusion is an absolute certainty, and speaks in the language of "Trump did collude with the Russians", rather than may have or might have or is suspected of, is as good as a conspiracy theorist. They want it to be true and have no credible evidence. See Raymond.

No credible evidence, the big piece of evidence that initiated the investigation was the dossier which has been a bit of a flop. It is, as of right now, a conspiracy theory.

You've also given me nothing to say why it's wrong to call it one, unless you're using a different definition, which by all means please share.
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I am not the one making any claims. You held a position that no collusion is occurring, then it is up you to provide evidence to support your claim.


My only claim is Trump is still under investigation and the investigation has already returned a record number of indictments and some very concerning interactions with high-ranking Russian operatives. Those are all facts.


You are again stating that there is no credible evidence. So where is your support for this claim?



There is no conspriacy theory because there is a current ongoing investigation.
 
Mason- said:
Lmao. So you start off with implying no evidence is leaked to the public, which is true it mostly isn't. And you still insist that it's a fact because you can 'read between the lines'. Nice one. Yeah what were a lot of those people locked up for? Collusion with Russia? Nope.



I do? Where have I ever made any claims about Clinton and Obama? What are you talking about?

Do you not take innocent until proven guilty seriously? If so, why not?

I know you've immediately jumped to loads of conclusions about me. And not even for 'supporting trump' but just merely for not immediately condemning him as guilty guilty guilty. You need to seriously reassess your prejudices.
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I do think Trump has colluded, those emails between Junior and "I love it", and the secret meetings with the Russians in the Oval Office, and Jeff Sessions's meeting with the Russians, and Trump's private meetings with Putin with Putin's own translator.....sure, it's all innocent....(but it's not a crime anyway), but deep down I think he is too stupid to do what we think are the deep conspiracy to commit crimes, or too stupid to try and hide it so he doesn't. What he will be charged with will be money related, it always is, and obstruction to justice, like hiring Comey and to stop the investigation and then admitting it on TV that he fired Comey because of the Russian investigation. Before his admission I would say he is innocent but when he admitted doing it....you just got to take his word on it, right?!
 
D.P. said:
I am not the one making any claims. You held a position that no collusion is occurring, then it is up you to provide evidence to support your claim.
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No I didn't, I said there's no credible evidence that it is occurring. Not that it never occurred or definitely occurred.
D.P. said:
My only claim is Trump is still under investigation and the investigation has already returned a record number of indictments and some very concerning interactions with high-ranking Russian operatives. Those are all facts.
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Agreed.

D.P. said:
You are again stating that there is no credible evidence. So where is your support for this claim?
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Where is the credible evidence?

D.P. said:
There is no conspriacy theory because there is a current ongoing investigation.
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How does it not fit the definition?
Going by this definition, first sentence from wikipedia: "A conspiracy theory is an explanation of an event or situation that invokes a conspiracy – generally one involving an illegal or harmful act supposedly carried out by government or other powerful actors – without credible evidence."

an event - Trump election
a conspiracy - Russia colluded with Trump to make him president
illegal or harmful act - foreign influence on election and treason
government or powerful actors - Russia + Trump
without credible evidence - right now there is none. If there were it wouldn't be a conspiracy theory, it would be true.

So until credible evidence turns up, it is just a conspiracy theory. The length of the investigation is irrelevant. As is bringing up something completely unrelated, even though that is indeed a conspiracy theory.
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What part of this is not true?

Raymond Lin said:
I do think Trump has colluded, those emails between Junior and "I love it", and the secret meetings with the Russians in the Oval Office, and Jeff Sessions's meeting with the Russians, and Trump's private meetings with Putin with Putin's own translator.....sure, it's all innocent....(but it's not a crime anyway), but deep down I think he is too stupid to do what we think are the deep conspiracy to commit crimes, or too stupid to try and hide it so he doesn't. What he will be charged with will be money related, it always is, and obstruction to justice, like hiring Comey and to stop the investigation and then admitting it on TV that he fired Comey because of the Russian investigation. Before his admission I would say he is innocent but when he admitted doing it....you just got to take his word on it, right?!
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Why don't you just go and tell Mueller all this and get it over with then?

Good talking to you Raymond.
 
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Mason- said:
No I didn't, I said there's no credible evidence that it is occurring. Not that it never occurred or definitely occurred.

Agreed.


Where is the credible evidence?



How does it not fit the definition?


What part of this is not true?
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"without credible evidence."

You have to prove that the FBI do not have credible evidence.

On the contrast, since the investigation is till ongoing then there is likely sufficient evidence to continue investigating.

I don't have to prove anything. you are making a claim that there is a conspiracy theory because there is no credible evidence. How do you know that? what proof do you have that the FBI have no evidence?


I know this is GD, but if you want to debate a point then you have to be able to back it up with facts and reasoning, not just blindly dismiss something based on your own opinion that the FBI lack evidence.
 
D.P. said:
"without credible evidence."

You have to prove that the FBI do not have credible evidence.
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No I don't.

The people making the claim that Trump got elected (the event) because of collusion with Russia (collusion) without evidence (without credible evidence). Are believing a conspiracy theory. There being an investigation doesn't imply that there is credible evidence, that is the whole point of having an investigation. I don't need to prove the negative. To stop it being a conspiracy theory, there needs to be credible evidence, or it not being a conspiracy (incompetence etc.) to explain the event.
 
Jussie Smollett is a lying piece of crap. I hope he's arrested and jailed. People like him in a high profile position should be made an example of.

The attack was supposed to have been carried out by 2 white people, wearing ski masks shouting racial/homophobic slurs and as they left shouting "this is maga country!"

All a complete fantasy story as the paint that was supposedly thrown at smollett was found in the house of the 2 black nigerians. So off smolletts own words we can see its all fictional.
 
It seems like there have been a few murmurs about possibly using article 25 to topple him, I don't think that is realistic at the moment but if things were to get really silly and that safety measure were to be used I think Pence might well be reassured that he'd be supported.

oops, sorry, thought I was posting in another thread there...
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
Not the hero we need but the hero we deserve.

Thanks BowdonUK for your comments which are actually related to the OP. I imagine the mods are bored, drunk, or both because welp, that was quite the tangent.
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You know you're doing the thing that you're complaining about right?

On topic:

I wonder what the penalty for this is if they're lying. The obvious one would be wasting police time. Any US Legal experts know what sort of ramifications there are for what they were trying to cause if it is true that it was all a plan? Are there any other felonies for faking a crime with the plan behind it to flare racial tensions, or as a political smear etc?
 
Mason- said:
Any US Legal experts know what sort of ramifications there are for what they were trying to cause if it is true
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Do you understand the words you're typing? How many * ahem, checks notes * US LEGAL EXPERTS are you expecting on a UK based computer forum? WTF are you even saying?

:)

e: dowie - nice take, I would have gone with a shorter quote to show the nonsense but I like your all-in approach too. Stay super, babes x
 
[FnG]magnolia said:
Do you understand the words you're typing? How many * ahem, checks notes * US LEGAL EXPERTS are you expecting on a UK based computer forum? WTF are you even saying?

:)

e: dowie - nice take, I would have gone with a shorter quote to show the nonsense but I like your all-in approach too. Stay super, babes x
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And you've still contributed absolutely nothing to this thread whilst simultaneously complaining about other people doing so. Good job. LITERALLY AWFUL

Fine, anyone with any US legal understanding (being an expert not necessary!!! [or a pedantic **** for that matter]) know if there are any other potential charges?

I'm asking if there are any other felonies due to the motivation for why something is faked? E.g. if you fake a car accident for insurance reasons, it's insurance fraud etc. If you fake an attack to stir racial tensions, is that a crime?
 
Mason- said:
Any US Legal experts know what sort of ramifications there are for what they were trying to cause if it is true that it was all a plan? Are there any other felonies for faking a crime with the plan behind it to flare racial tensions, or as a political smear etc?
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I'm not an expert but in addition to wasting police time, the big one would be if the threatening letters to Smollet and / or the letter containing suspicious white powder (turned out to be crushed asprin) were from Smollet as well. Terrorism and death threats, including hoax ones) via the US mail are a federal crime and almost certain to be pursued. He's in a lot more danger over these than wasting police time. There may be other laws, including state laws that he could be prosecuted under but this is what I'm aware of. Ironically if Kamala Harris's "anti-lynching" publicity stunt law had passed, it's just possible he could have been charged under that!

If this incident had taken place in one of a number of European countries, he could also potentially be charged under various 'inciting racial hatred' laws, I suspect. But the USA is pretty strong on Free Speech, thankfully, so I don't know if they'd have any equivalents that could apply.

EDIT: Federal Obstruction charges also, if he sent the letters and has been lying about it.
 
Reports coming out that he was going to testify against 2 men until he found out they got the Nigerian brothers.

He was actually willing to destroy 2 innocent lives.

If true he should go down hard for this
 
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