Fan Question

jsbombjack

jsbombjack

jsbombjack

Associate
Joined
23 Aug 2010
Posts
237
Hi everyone.

Long time visitor, occasional poster.

I am trying to balance noise vs performance on my rig (9700k & 2080ti, fractal nano s) and due to my office being freezing in winter and a sauna as soon as spring hits this is quite hard.

I am currently have corsair ML fans (3x120 and 2x140) running, but they are quite loud when running at any decent speed for cooling.

Is it worth migrating my fans to noctua ones, or will there be no real difference in noise?

On paper they move a similar amount of air, with less noise, but I am interested in any real world experience people have.
 
Design/geometry of those Corsairs is mediocre at best for good noise signature:
Motor supports are thick and they block major amount of fan blade's trailing edge when fan blade passes support.
That causes major "bumps" into airflow.

You can "visualize" effect by steadily blowing air from mouth and then moving object like finger or pen fast back and forth through airflow.

Arctic P12 PWM and P14 PWM are lot better designed for smooth sound profile and PWM PST models also come with splitter in cable allowing daisy chaining multiple of them into one fan header.
Also they don't cost arm and leg.
 
I did a bad and bought the noctua chromax fans. Of course they still make a noise, but nowhere near as much as the corsair ones. Even when they rev up though, the sound profile is just better, far quieter overall
 
^He only ever recommends that one fan brand... to the point where I presume he's sponsored by them. Usually it's triggered by mention of Noctua, who he hates for some reason, and he typically includes a rather old link to MartinsLiquidLab that doesn't actually substantiate his point.

I actually went from Noctuas over to ML120s myself, although Noctua are still the best balance for noise vs performance. Blacknoise also do pretty decent fans.

Thing is, any fan will generate airflow noise (yes, even the Arctic P12 PWM), especially ones that can go all the way to 2400rpm, so I would first ask some questions:

1/. What rpm are you running these fans at?
2/. What do you have them blowing through, ie radiators, heatsinks, etc?
3/. What sort of temperatures are you getting, compared to room temp, on the CPU, GPU and (if you have it) water?
 
I've recently used noctua, arctic P series and settled on bequiet which although they make noise which all fans do they sound better than the others

If you want you pc to be quiet at idle and fans kick in as the system gets warm if when gaming match the case fans to system temp with a flat line that then tops out at around 40 degrees so something like 20% from 0C to 30C for the first points then the last point at 80/90% at 40C system temp

My case fans are inaudible in windows and ramp up when gaming with it set like that
 
ttaskmaster said:
1/. What rpm are you running these fans at?
2/. What do you have them blowing through, ie radiators, heatsinks, etc?
3/. What sort of temperatures are you getting, compared to room temp, on the CPU, GPU and (if you have it) water?
Click to expand...

A curve from ~800 through (now) to 1400 on the front fans (the 140s) the same on the 120s strapped to a top mounted rad. A rear fan (bequiet) that runs at a steady speed because they are quiet even if they don't move that much air.

All fans are linked to a commander pro and controlled through icue. Not the best solution maybe, but it does the job.

Temps are good, 2080ti idles at 27 to 35 depending on ambient temps and if rtx voice is running (that adds ~8c to any temps). Processor (9700k) idles at 35 to 40.

Under load cpu gets to between 60 and 70 depending on ambient, the gpu tops out at high 70s again on ambient.
So I'm not troubled by any of that, just want a decent fan noise if I can get one. The gpu runs a reasonable fan curve where I try not to get the fans to rev too much.

Trouble is the swings in ambient temp in my office is part of the problem, one I can't fix easily. It can be 6c in winter, and go north of 20c in spring/summer. That can trigger the gpu to hit 81c, which is the point where the fans go full steam ahead with killing my eardrums. So that's the next part to look at.

I am going to replace the paste on the gpu because I want to, and because there has to be something I can do to stop the fans getting too loud. I would love to go full water, but it would be hard to slip that amount of kit (and cash) past wifey...
 
ttaskmaster said:
^He only ever recommends that one fan brand... to the point where I presume he's sponsored by them. Usually it's triggered by mention of Noctua, who he hates for some reason, and he typically includes a rather old link to MartinsLiquidLab that doesn't actually substantiate his point.
Click to expand...

I must be sponsored by them as well then, as I've recommended them in several threads - whilst they likely aren't the absolute quietest fans available, they are fairly quiet, move a decent amount of air, and are cheap.

It's difficult to recommend fans that cost double or even triple the price of the Arctics, but yet obviously aren't 2 or 3 times better.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £38.41 (includes shipping: £3.48)​
​
 
Armageus said:
I must be sponsored by them as well then, as I've recommended them in several threads
Click to expand...
But it's not the one and only fan you ever recommend, though... and your responses do not read as if you copy-pasted them.

jsbombjack said:
So I'm not troubled by any of that, just want a decent fan noise if I can get one.
Click to expand...
The trouble is not your choice of fan... well, not specifically, anyway.
Most of your noise is caused by the airflow itself, passing through the rad and fan grilles, bouncing around inside the case creating reverb, and interacting with the other fan airflows.
I take it you're on an AIO, then? Is it possible to swap that for a different one, or will Her Ladyship still get upset?

I generally strip out all the meshes that come attached to the intakes on my case. They don't stop dust, only lessen it and I blast my case out at least once a month anyway. But they do restrict airflow, so the cleaner the intake the smoother and quieter the airflow.

jsbombjack said:
Trouble is the swings in ambient temp in my office is part of the problem, one I can't fix easily. It can be 6c in winter, and go north of 20c in spring/summer. That can trigger the gpu to hit 81c, which is the point where the fans go full steam ahead with killing my eardrums. So that's the next part to look at.
Click to expand...
That's a bit concerning... I'm sat in 26ºC but my GPU won't go above 65º under load. I have uncomfortably high idle temps, but the difference compared to load values is quite small.
How many fans are intaking vs how many exhausting?
 
ttaskmaster said:
That's a bit concerning... I'm sat in 26ºC but my GPU won't go above 65º under load. I have uncomfortably high idle temps, but the difference compared to load values is quite small.
How many fans are intaking vs how many exhausting?
Click to expand...

Yep, hence me going to brave taking the card apart and redoing the thermal paste. I could RMA it I suppose, but tbh I would rather take care of it myself as it is probably quicker and easier.

ttaskmaster said:
How many fans are intaking vs how many exhausting
Click to expand...

Now I have:

INTAKE
2x140mm Noctua (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/noctua-nf-a14-pwm-chromax-premium-grade-fan-140mm-fg-06l-nc.html)
1x120mm Corsair (running at fixed 800rpm to get some air direct on to the GPU. This will go after I redo the thermal paste

EXHAUST
2x120mm Noctua through a 240mm Corsair H100 AIO (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/noctua-nf-f12-pwm-chromax-premium-grade-fan-120mm-fg-06n-nc.html)
1x120mm Bequiet on the rear of the case

The 140mm intakes are curved to run faster than the exhausts
 
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I think you need to try and visualise the airflow
(You'll have to excuse my MS Paint skillz :D)


This is basically what you currently have:
DeavuUj.jpg

The rear exhaust is doing very little, as the flow from the front fans is going to be pulled up and out by the nearer fans on the Radiator, the flow from the bottom 120mm is also going to go straight up (further pushing the front air straight up). The bottom fan may help the GPU slightly, but not much.


Personally I think you would get cleaner airflow with the aio at the front and removing the top(Front) fan:
ZlIOrpi.jpg

By doing that you should pull more air across the GPU.
CPU temperature should also get a benefit due to being cooled by colder intake air.

Not sure if you can push/pull on that AIO, but may also be an option if further intake air is needed. (or if not then a 280mm aio is another option)


There's some further reading here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/amh2fw/define_nano_s_advice_on_fan_configuration/
 
Armageus said:
This is basically what you currently have:
DeavuUj.jpg
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I have (good paint skills) except the GPU spreads across the whole area, so the bottom fan pushes air on to the last third(ish) of the card. The 2 140mm effective push air through the top half of the case and the bottom, if you assume the GPU effectively creates 2 zones.
There is no room for push/pull on a radiator and I moved the radiator to increase the airflow through the case over the GPU. Putting the rad in the front restricts airflow, so the bottom fan helps for sure as well. Does that make sense?

I like the idea of stopping the rear fan as things start to ramp up, and directing all air out the top though. I wonder how I can do an inverse curve...

I had seen that reddit post, it is very interesting for sure
 
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jsbombjack said:
I like the idea of stopping the rear fan as things start to ramp up, and directing all air out the top though.
Click to expand...
I think you've missed the point a little. You don't want the air to be going out the top (especially at the front), as if it's going out the top it isn't flowing over anything (GPU, RAM, chipset, VRMs).

jsbombjack said:
That's exactly what I have (good paint skills) except the GPU spreads across the whole area, so the bottom fan pushes air on to the last third(ish) of the card. There is no room for push/pull on a radiator and I moved the radiator to increase the airflow through the case over the GPU. Putting the rad in the front So the bottom fan helps for sure. Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

It does make sense to some degree, but the bottom fan isn't really solving the problem - it's blowing a little air at part of the GPU, instead of having air pulled across all of the GPU.


I'd honestly try the AIO at the front again (even without push/pull) with your new fans it should still be better.
Even if there's less airflow in total, if it's directed in the right places it should be better ("airflow vs airblow" as someone else here often says). Leaving the top front spot empty is needed to ensure that the rear and top rear fans help pull air across everything.
 
800 rpm at idle is way too fast for ML140s, I run mine at 400rpm idle for total silence with great cooling through a Corsair 450D mesh front, I also use silent wings 3 on cpu cooler in the same build all tuned for silence at idle and quiet load. Silent Wings barely any bettet for silence than MLs. All can be run together just fine in a silent build.
 
Armageus said:
It does make sense to some degree, but the bottom fan isn't really solving the problem - it's blowing a little air at part of the GPU, instead of having air pulled across all of the GPU.
Click to expand...

I agree completely, and I do want to remove it soon. But I do think I need to repaste the card. If nothing else I would like to make sure it is done properly and the card is tightened down properly, something which (according to other forums can be a problem). It is not overclocked either.

All the other temps are ok (VRM, RAM etc. don't go above 55c on a GPU stress test run) so it does just seem that the GPU has an issue when being at load.

I have also tried removing the front filter on the case, and tbh there is no difference in temps
 
jsbombjack said:
I have also tried removing the front filter on the case, and tbh there is no difference in temps
Click to expand...
What about the noise, though? That's my focus.
You may also find the different airflows interact quite a bit, to create a resonance. Try the AIO in front and with fans in Pull. Might help smooth the air a bit.

I wonder if I have Bomb Jack on an emulator somewhere....
 
It's on the switch on the Nintendo online service if nothing else.

Noise from the fans is fine now, even if they are running at max. The noise profile of the noctua fans is more pleasing to my ear as well. Noise from the gpu fans, not so much when they go full tilt. So that is the next focus for me
 
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