Actually the concepts of OO are one of the most hotly debated topics in a lot of communities. "Tell, Don't Ask", "Composite vs Inheritance", etc.
FAO people in the IT Industry
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Actually the concepts of OO are one of the most hotly debated topics in a lot of communities. "Tell, Don't Ask", "Composite vs Inheritance", etc.
I didn't say that.
There's a difference between "giving something a go", and putting a lot of time, effort and personal investment into something.
Software dev. IS something you can "just give a go", but you'll be useless at it without a good deal of background studying and a lot of real world project experience.
If I was starting out now I'd stick with UNIX/Storage etc. which is what I do now and what I enjoy.
I think the problem these days is that the market is flooded with absolute idiots, we've had huge problems filling roles with anyone decent. It becomes difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
I think the problem these days is that the market is flooded with absolute idiots, we've had huge problems filling roles with anyone decent. It becomes difficult to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
This. 90% of people that turn up to interviews for a software developer position are utterly useless. I.e. the level of useless where they won't even know the difference between a value and reference type. The fact they have any experience on their CV at all is totally amazing.
If hiring just a "support technician" type role, then a certain level of ignorance around things is actually healthy. They can whack out hacky little tools and utilities projects like no tomorrow - and they feel happy and sleep at night whilst doing it. But don't ever try to fit them into a true software development project or team. As they will destroy the codebase, bit by bit. But ignorance of his/her field in a "software developer" candidate is an immediate indication of failure.
I would have liked to have concentrated on grades, and taken IT as a GCSE at school, then gone through the college/uni route for it.
But, I didn't, and now I am in a better paid jobs than my mates coming out of a 3 year degree in IT...
I got tons more experience and in some cases, know more than them simply because of my hands on knowledge.
So, that's it really, other than that. I am happy Love being a sys admin
ags
But, I didn't, and now I am in a better paid jobs than my mates coming out of a 3 year degree in IT...
I got tons more experience and in some cases, know more than them simply because of my hands on knowledge.
So, that's it really, other than that. I am happy
Love being a sys admin ags
What technical skills do you need to be able to get that kind of job?
Also, got any jobs going?
I’ll explain a bit as I also got a PM about the Pre-Sales roles asking me for more info.
Technical skills depend on the company that employs you, the exact role and the level you join at. I need to know a lot about a lot of subjects but only to a high level (i.e product overview, business benefits, etc). I need to know what the industry is doing. Think of it this way – i’m the GP, i’m the regular point of contact with the customer and I look into all the issues. I have all the specialists I can bring in when I need to, to go into more detail. The salesman gives the bill
My areas are anything to do with the storage world - SAN, NAS, Server and Storage Virtualisation, Cloud, archive, backup, etc. Typically i’ll have the base certifications in a lot of technologies but not any further – I have the specialists for further discussions. I could be presenting to an IT team one day, their CTO the next and writing a proposal the day after.
If you want to go right into it you’ll find that most larger companies will recruit their pre-sales consultants from their engineer pool. Quite a few, like mine, offer Associate programs where you work your way up. They want a degree and some experience (not a lot, a year will do). They don’t bother with the group workshop interview they do traditionally 1:1 interviews, a few presentations, etc.
You’ll start off doing a little but gradually take on more and more. They want people who are outgoing and confident. No matter how experienced you are and how much you know you’re no good to them if you can’t communicate effectively with customers and build a relationship.
Happy to go into more detail if you want, everyone always forgets the pre-sales side of IT and it’s a great place to be.
What route did you take to get into your current route? And if it wasn't exactly the best way to get into it, what preceeding roles would you recommend to head that way? You did mention pulling people from the engineering pool but is it as simple as a business analyst/software dev seeing a potential ticket up and going for it?
The place I work at is a mid size software firm and at least for the products I work on I think they require a fair bit of experience for pre-sales guys. If you can get into something like that at an early stage and enjoy the travel etc.. then that's pretty cool. Pay certainly seems to be good, I know at my place one product manager moved from managing a team of developers/analysts to being the pre-sales guy for that particular area.
It also doesn't seem to be for the typical salesmen types, qualifying leads, pitching, seems to be a very very long drawn out process when it comes to large software projects.
To be honest, I'm happy where I am - doing software development for smartphones. The pay is good, the working environment is excellent and the work is interesting.
If I was getting into the industry now, I'd probably try to focus more on the apps side of thing than the OS-level stuff that I tend to do. If you can get a few apps out into the wild whilst still at university, I'm sure that doors would open.
But software development isn't for everyone. It takes a 'special' kind of person to be good at it.
If I was getting into the industry now, I'd probably try to focus more on the apps side of thing than the OS-level stuff that I tend to do. If you can get a few apps out into the wild whilst still at university, I'm sure that doors would open.
But software development isn't for everyone. It takes a 'special' kind of person to be good at it.
Guy's looking for some help!
I am 15 currently and need to start applying to colleges. My original idea was to become a qualified electrician. I have since started about thinking of getting a qualification in IT? But it seems i shouldn't be doing this?
I was looking at doing something like a: Diploma for Creative iMedia (Web) Level 3? as im quite interested in web design and i have produced a website with some help and i enjoyed doing the coding and photoshop etc. If i was looking to do like web design,graphics design etc am i looking at the wrong course?
Really looking for some help here guys! What sort of qualifications should i be looking to do that arent the boring 'support people' as i really dont want to do that.
If it helps i consider myself smart and am on target to achieve 7+ A-C GCSE.
I am 15 currently and need to start applying to colleges. My original idea was to become a qualified electrician. I have since started about thinking of getting a qualification in IT? But it seems i shouldn't be doing this?
I was looking at doing something like a: Diploma for Creative iMedia (Web) Level 3? as im quite interested in web design and i have produced a website with some help and i enjoyed doing the coding and photoshop etc. If i was looking to do like web design,graphics design etc am i looking at the wrong course?
Really looking for some help here guys! What sort of qualifications should i be looking to do that arent the boring 'support people' as i really dont want to do that.
If it helps i consider myself smart and am on target to achieve 7+ A-C GCSE.
Would I be right in assuming that a lot of the happy posters are people working in software and a lot of the unhappy "avoid IT its baad m'kay" types worked in support/techie type roles?
edit - I should add that I'm not trying to say all support/techie roles are bad but I can see why some roles might not be much fun if pursued for too long. There are also clearly areas where outsourcing is going to be an issue.
edit - I should add that I'm not trying to say all support/techie roles are bad but I can see why some roles might not be much fun if pursued for too long. There are also clearly areas where outsourcing is going to be an issue.
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I lucked out pretty much. I worked in the US for a pharmaceutical company. I was one of two IT guys in a large manufacturing facility so I did a bit of everything from SAN and network admin, backups, servers right down to user training and support calls. I worked with a great guy who mentored me and I learnt an insane amount in a short time period.
Upon my return to the UK I was looking for a job local to where I lived and noticed the role for a pre-sales associate consultant. I had no idea what the job was about really but I gave it a shot because it looked interesting and was only a couple of miles from home. I had some good experience, my uni project and dissertation were directly related to the work and they took a punt and gave me the job.....after three interviews, two tests and a couple of presentations.
Salary was low, compared to what consultant earned, but that’s what you get when you start at the bottom of the ladder. Just like every company out there they will keep the salary as low as they can for as long as they can, you have to drive it, luckily there were numerous events i’ve taken advantage of over the years to boost salary. That was over six years ago and a lot has changed since then.
It would be hard but not impossible to get a pre-sales role without some experience in IT. You need a degree but it doesn’t have to be from a top uni and it doesn’t have to be a first – they don’t care. Plenty of companies looking for eager people who want to work in pre-sales, you’re their cheap labour. The preceding role doesn’t matter too much, do something you like and have fun is my advice but if you were a backup monkey you’re more likely to get a job as a Symantec Pre-Sales Consultant than someone with programming experience, for example.
I’ve always been into storage so it was natural for me, so find your niche and then build your career.
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I'm only 24 so don't really think I can comment properly but I still love what I do after 5 years or so! But then I spend half my time running a business and half my time doing "IT" (I setup my own IT company) so perhaps I get a good mix - when I get bored of reading documents I fiddle with servers, and vice versa...
But if I had to do something completely different, maybe I'd spend more time on photography or become a journalist
But if I had to do something completely different, maybe I'd spend more time on photography or become a journalist
Indeed it depends on the product set. If you have a small amount of products your pre-sales guys will be really good and knowledgeable. I’m lucky in that we have so many products that I only really know the basics about everything but you have to be on the ball. You have to know what you’re competitors are doing, how to handle objections, what the industry is doing, build relationships and be the technical owner of solutions from a pre-sales point of view.
Software is often a long sale - Things like content management solutions can take two years to sell and five years to implement. I couldn’t do it.......too slow for me
If you get the right role at the right company you can have a great time. Sure there’s bad but I could list a whole page of perks
I've done loads of jobs, did a lot of building, then moved in to IT. I switched from graphics, dabbled in hardware, then went into programming. Mainly because I reckoned the pay was better, and it is. I'd prefer graphics and the hardware side though. But much harder to make money in them. I like problem solving, and IT gives you that. Only problem its easy to get stuck with a lot of mundane tasks. Thats just grim. While I still like computers, (otherwise I wouldn't be on this forum and not at this time of night). If I was doing it again I think I'd try do something like be a pilot, or architect. Even a lower paid one. Or join the army or be a policeman or such. Something that gets you out of the office and away from a computer. Its just not that healthy for mind or body to be stuck in front a screen, in an office. As we get older we might be glad we're in IT.