Far right terror is the "fastest growing" threat to the UK

Caporegime
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Just happened to switch over to Sky News and there was a report where the sky reporter has been with the west midlands anti-terror police force, they stated that far right terror is the fastest growing terror group in the UK.

I believe they said that 80% of terror investigations still relate to islamist extremists, but over the last two years there has been an obvious increase in "far right" terror that they deal with and they mentioned it mainly in relation to Birmingham.

Unfortunately there isn't a written article linked to this, but the video report it below.

https://news.sky.com/story/frenzy-of-hatred-the-dramatic-rise-of-far-right-extremists-11609611

What do people think this might be down to?
 
Caporegime
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Not sure what your point is, if 80% of all terror investigations are Islamic related then shouldn't we concentrate on that mindboggling statistic ?

How about we focus on both like good rational people.

The targets that seem to suffer the most from the ultranationalists tend to be the "wrong" ones, ie the same ones that Islamists target, it's telling that they've not killed a single MP (lets be honest they care more about their own) but in the short timespan that the police have cared about ultranationalists, they've murdered a delightful MP for little reason.

But they also tend to be dumb as bricks (fail far more often, typically single-target) with little support from states (Saudi Arabia).
 
Commissario
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Not sure what your point is, if 80% of all terror investigations are Islamic related then shouldn't we concentrate on that mindboggling statistic ?
Most of the "isslamic terror related investigations" seem to be because of the sheer number of people that are "on the radar" because of things like friends/family/where they pray.

IIRC it's the same in the US and much of Europe, most of the active terror threats are not from Muslims but from the various far right and independence groups, but most of the people being checked out have for the last 18 years been Muslim, so you've got vast numbers of people who have "been of interest"/"referred" or investigated with nothing found (IIRC in the UK it's in the high tens of thousands, in France it's something like 100k+), whilst the far right groups have been largely left to it and been far more active in an organised manner but you don't tend to hear of them.

Note there is a difference between "terror threats" and attacks, as many of the Islamic terrorist attacks are basically people with little or no organised group but self identify and use whatever is at hand (seemingly often when they might be in trouble for unrelated criminal activities), whilst many of the far right groups are more organised and get caught before they act (it's far easier to catch someone who is an active part of a group).
 
Soldato
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How many people have far right terrorists killed in the uk in the last 20 years? How many active far right extremists are the security services having to track? How many far right extremists have under taken action abroad as part of wider far right terror movements? I don’t know the answer but given how little we’ve heard over the last 2 decades not many would be my guess. National Action or whatever they were called were proscribed after the Jo Cox murder but I’d literally never heard of them until a year after she was killed. I feel like this is a mountain being made of a molehill to provide some sort of false balance in the media. The far right has been a joke my entire life mostly a way of hooligans to give themselves a political identity it seemed.

Racism is still a problem, other forms of bigotry are still a problem but far right terrorism, I’m not even convinced it exists in a meaningful way. The only far right terrorist I can think of is the London nail bomber in the 90’s.
 
Caporegime
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I've said in other threads, it's down to bad government policy in terms of unfettered immigration and situations like the police turning a blind eye to primarily Pakistani child rape gang for 20+ years, authorities covering it up is what gave rise to people like Tommy Robinson. The far lefts political correctness has paralysed politicians and police from doing what's right because telling a convicted murderer he's not welcome in the country is an act of bigotry or something.

Hades summed it up perfectly:
Newton's Third Law. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

Compared to the rest of the EU we're in a much better place I think but Brexit can't come soon enough.
 
Caporegime
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How many people have far right terrorists killed in the uk in the last 20 years? How many active far right extremists are the security services having to track? How many far right extremists have under taken action abroad as part of wider far right terror movements? I don’t know the answer but given how little we’ve heard over the last 2 decades not many would be my guess. National Action or whatever they were called were proscribed after the Jo Cox murder but I’d literally never heard of them until a year after she was killed. I feel like this is a mountain being made of a molehill to provide some sort of false balance in the media. The far right has been a joke my entire life mostly a way of hooligans to give themselves a political identity it seemed.

Racism is still a problem, other forms of bigotry are still a problem but far right terrorism, I’m not even convinced it exists in a meaningful way. The only far right terrorist I can think of is the London nail bomber in the 90’s.

If you know what happens if you leave it unchecked, it would be grossly negligent to "wait til they've murdered a few more people". We KNOW what happens when ultranationalist inciting, misinformation and low economic prospects does to people.

Got to make the list now, finally get some use out of GCHQ.
 
Caporegime
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I've said in other threads, it's down to bad government policy in terms of unfettered immigration and situations like the police turning a blind eye to primarily Pakistani child rape gang for 20+ years, authorities covering it up is what gave rise to people like Tommy Robinson. The far lefts political correctness has paralysed politicians and police from doing what's right because telling a convicted murderer he's not welcome in the country is an act of bigotry or something.

Hades summed it up perfectly:


Compared to the rest of the EU we're in a much better place I think but Brexit can't come soon enough.

I wont turn this into a Brexit thread, but answer me this what will it solve that we couldn't solve in the first place if the main contention is actually non-EU immigrants? ITS RISING.
 
Soldato
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Well its focus is in large part due to a concomitant rise in Islamic encroachment and the perception that the State is either uncaring or on the Islamic side. That and a widespread feeling that they are not represented by the government and don't have a voice. I think the radical Right (such as they are) are also strongly pro-Leave and there's a widespread fear that the government is going to renege on the results of the referendum as well.

Now whether it would find another focus in the absence of Islamic encroachment is a different question. I think in large part it would because when someone wants to plant a bomb it's usually because of problems in their own life rather than someone else's. At least in the developed Western world. However, what would be different is the level of support and emboldening for it. With Islamic terrorism, the problem is not the individual terrorist per se, but when a community is willing to support that person's views and encourage them or look the other way. It's why an unhappy person in one Islamic community will just be an unhappy person. And the same person attending a Wahabist mosque will be someone who learns that talking about killing infidels gets them attention and support. Similar with your "far Right". An unhappy person might want to lash out but they lack the social direction and support. However, as groups that hold hateful views grow in number, they form the muck in which your proto-terrorist can grow and bloom.

Proto-terrorists, well I wont say they're fixed in number independent of all social circumstance because that's not true, but my point is that there are always proto-terrorists and what turns them from that into real terrorists is a supportive, ideological group around them. Now Islamic communities have had such groups increasing significantly for the past twenty years under the backing of various state-level operators. (Saudi and USA, I'm looking at you). Sufficient numbers of "far Right" haven't typically been clustered enough to incubate much in the way of terrorism until recently. But with that rise in Islamic encroachment and feeling that the State either doesn't care or is on the Islamic side, such communities are growing now too. I should add also that it's not simply Islamic encroachment. That is one aspect. It is also very much a feeling that nations are being eroded, governments rendered impotent or corrupt by a globalist agenda. Disenfranchisement is the water that makes terrorism sprout and angry communities provide the dirt.

That is why historically we've had much less terrorism that non-Western countries: because democracy heads it off. People are doubting our democracy right now in ever increasing numbers. As someone elsewhere said, for many people in our FPTP electoral system, Brexit is the first time in their lives that their vote has actually meant something. If faith in democracy fails, Hell will break loose.
 
Soldato
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If you know what happens if you leave it unchecked, it would be grossly negligent to "wait til they've murdered a few more people". We KNOW what happens when ultranationalist inciting, misinformation and low economic prospects does to people.

Got to make the list now, finally get some use out of GCHQ.

Honestly I’m happy we’re stamping down on the far right we seem to have been successfully doing it my entire life, but it feels like we’re being told it’s a big deal though when it’s not and hasn’t ever really been.
 
Soldato
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The problem with leading with titles like "fastest growing" for a thing is it tells you very litlle, in of itself, about what is going on behind the title.

If 2017 had one right wing terroist incident and 100 one from another particular vector vs 2018 with the respective figures being 2 and 110 then the former would have had a 100% increase with the latter having a 10% increase.
 
Caporegime
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I wont turn this into a Brexit thread, but answer me this what will it solve that we couldn't solve in the first place if the main contention is actually non-EU immigrants? ITS RISING.

Just have a merit based immigration system based on our countries needs for workers and not an open door to anyone who can make it aboard an NGO people trafficking vessel and onto our shores. While ever we are bound by the EU's legalism that nobody voted for there's nothing we can do due to excessive human rights laws that treat thoroughly evil people like innocent bunny rabbits.

The fact that ISIS terrorists are allowed to return to the country and then we have to waste resources monitoring them 24/7 says it all about how bonkers our country has become. Labour can talk about needing more police resources but if we keep increasing resources to deal with the madness of policy we'll soon bankrupt our country.
 
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Caporegime
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Just have an immigration system based on our countries needs for workers and not an open door to anyone who can make it aboard an NGO people trafficking vessel and onto our shores. While ever we are bound by the EU's legalism that nobody voted for there's nothing we can do due to excessive human rights laws that treat thoroughly evil people like innocent bunny rabbits.

The "illegal" immigrants are numbered in the single thousands at best over the last decade... in which period 2-3 MILLION came legally. I think only a couple years has EU migration ever been higher than non-EU, it will solve nothing.
 
Soldato
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Most of the "isslamic terror related investigations" seem to be because of the sheer number of people that are "on the radar" because of things like friends/family/where they pray.

IIRC it's the same in the US and much of Europe, most of the active terror threats are not from Muslims but from the various far right and independence groups, but most of the people being checked out have for the last 18 years been Muslim, so you've got vast numbers of people who have "been of interest"/"referred" or investigated with nothing found (IIRC in the UK it's in the high tens of thousands, in France it's something like 100k+), whilst the far right groups have been largely left to it and been far more active in an organised manner but you don't tend to hear of them.

Note there is a difference between "terror threats" and attacks, as many of the Islamic terrorist attacks are basically people with little or no organised group but self identify and use whatever is at hand (seemingly often when they might be in trouble for unrelated criminal activities), whilst many of the far right groups are more organised and get caught before they act (it's far easier to catch someone who is an active part of a group).

I don't think your take matches up with reality. In addition, your theory that Islamic terrorism is no more prevalent and also less well-conducted than other sources does not mesh with your also arguing that it receives an undue proportion of investigation. Were it true that Islamic terrorism was both less of a thing and also more fiercely targeted by police and intelligence services, you would expect other sources to be far outpacing Islamic terrorist incidents. But that's not what we see nor what VincentHanna's video suggests. The fact is that we (the West) have smashed apart whole regions of the Middle East like they were anthills, destroying the social and governmental structures of countries like Iraq and Libya. We have inflicted huge loss of life. And demonstrably we have done it for the sake of money. Obama funded ISIS and Al-Nusra because he considered them a useful weapon against the Syrian government. He and Hillary Clinton launched a massive bombing campaign against Libya and supported an rebel group that was hated by most of the country and turned the entire state into a terrorism factory. In Iraq, toppling Saddam was arguably the right thing to do (he was NOT a nice guy) but we then went on to destroy the entire governing structure of the country, its economy and plunder its oil. We even encouraged the Saudi royal family to deliberately spread Wahabism through the ME to destabilize regions. You're fooling yourself if you don't think Islamic Terrorism is by far the larger issue and is "basically people with little or no organized group".
 
Soldato
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The far right isn't going on random stabbing rampages and blowing themselves up though. They get rowdy and shout a bit, that's about it.

I suspect this is just to distract people from the "islamic" terrorism we see so much of.
 
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