Fasten your seatbelts

Soldato
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Do people actually turtle head from turbulence?

I was on a flight back from Sardinia the other year, we dropped suddenly, holes in the overheads, babies screaming, people crying and praying.
I had my belt on, grabbed the guy next to me's iPad that was floating in front of me, and handed it back to him, and just carried on.
Pilot came on and apologised, nothing on radar or aircraft in front of us, just dropped, then carried on...

I can imagine people would indeed have Mr C Turtle in the departure lounge..
 
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Caporegime
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Do people actually turtle head from turbulence?

People get anxious and fart. It is quite normal under stress. I was with my Grandad at the time who was 92 and he started to tell me the story of how he was in a plane crash during his WW2 Burma years. The people around him were a little worried to say the least. It was hilarious looking back at it but I was pooing myself at the time.
 

mrk

mrk

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I have to say, there's part of me thinking that given how bad the turbulence clearly was, it's comforting that the plane is capable of coming through it and staying airborne
Have you seen the extent at which planes are tested to? Wings for example are highly bendy:


The rest is all down to the physics of airflow, long as there's air friction, the bird will fly :p
 
Commissario
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I can only assume there was no warning when we had it there was an announcement from the captain that were heading into turbulance and the fasten your seatbelt sign came on
I think that's the case, from memory after a couple of nasty accidents NASA developed a system that was initially fitted on the ground and later into larger aircraft (as the technology advanced and got smaller/cheaper) that can pick up some non obvious turbulence but it can't pick up all sorts or not with much warning.
 
Soldato
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This is really interesting. It looks like that sharp drop was around 150-200 ft.

Yep


Early investigations into severe turbulence that hit a Singapore Airlines flight last Tuesday reveal it dropped around 178ft (54m) over 4.6 seconds.

That's definitely in rollercoaster drop territory :p
 
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Soldato
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Reports today saying that "A Singapore Airlines flight hit by severe turbulence experienced a rapid change in gravitational force and a 54m (178ft) altitude drop in four seconds, an investigation has found."

WTF? Hitting a patch of low air pressure and falling a bit I can understand, but I've never seen a mention of gravitational force in relation to turbulence before...
 
Commissario
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Reports today saying that "A Singapore Airlines flight hit by severe turbulence experienced a rapid change in gravitational force and a 54m (178ft) altitude drop in four seconds, an investigation has found."

WTF? Hitting a patch of low air pressure and falling a bit I can understand, but I've never seen a mention of gravitational force in relation to turbulence before...
Negative G as it dropped and the passengers and aircraft were subjected to a negative g force.

Aircraft are rated for performance and maximum G loading on various axis and components, too much and you might need to say inspect or replace the undercarriage after a heavy landing, of after an incident that affects the airframe or wings they may been to be inspected and potentially written off (IIRC a several moderately heavy landings might require a routine inspection be moved up, anything over a certain level is inspect before the aircraft is used again and there is a point where it becomes "do not use, excessive forces").
It's one of the (many) things the 911 CT's never understood, aircraft have their normal performance specs (you keep it inside these if you value the airframe), the design limits (aka we can more of less guarantee it'll survive this"), and the "break limits" (or "we expect it to catastrophically fail around this point"), so a lot of the 911 nonsense about the aircraft moving beyond it's specs is basically "the pilots who were intent on crashing the aircraft didn't worry about the long term future of the airframe"* as aircraft tend to have huge safety margins specifically to allow for things where they are exposed to more than the normal operating limits, IIRC several aircraft have survived more or less intact after several time the "do not exceed" stresses after uncontrolled dives/control surface failures that have happened at a high enough altitude the pilots have managed to regain some control.

It's possibly unusual for it to be mentioned in the press, but that is I believe how incident reports will often put it "the aircraft encountered forces of Xg for 1.25 second during this part of incident" as it helps build up a picture of what happened and how it affected the airframe, cargo and crew much better than "it dropped 300 feet in 2 seconds".

IIRC the prototype 747 definitely did not do a loop the loop during a private test, and the pilot is definitely not reported to have stated "I looked at the data for the aircraft and worked out the forces involved" ;) (I'm never sure how true that story is, as apparently it happened but not officially;))


*there is an ex pilot/test pilot/pilot instructor on youtube called Ron Rogers who has some great videos explaining in simple terms a lot of stuff he learned in his career, including the time he got to rewrite the part of the manual on one of the fighter/trainer/test aircraft in regards to "what to do if the cockpit canopy undergoes an un-commanded separation at near the speed of sound".
 
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Soldato
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Reports today saying that "A Singapore Airlines flight hit by severe turbulence experienced a rapid change in gravitational force and a 54m (178ft) altitude drop in four seconds, an investigation has found."

WTF? Hitting a patch of low air pressure and falling a bit I can understand, but I've never seen a mention of gravitational force in relation to turbulence before...
I assume it means they went weightless which is normal in freefall and then when the drop ceased they experienced a rapid return of gravity which if you're floating up by the ceiling is not going to be a pleasant experience
...or what Werewolf said.
 
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Commissario
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I assume it means they went weightless which is normal in freefall and then when the drop ceased they experienced a rapid return of gravity which if you're floating up by the ceiling is not going to be a pleasant experience
...or what Werewolf said.
Yup

Probably the simpler way I could have put it was the airframe suffered negative G as it was forced down by the air outside, whilst the passengers encountered zero G (hence why they hit the ceiling) as they didn't have the external forces pushing them down at the same rate as the aicraft they were in.

Basically "airframe went from 1g normal to negative however much"
 
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54m in a little under 5 seconds is nothing.
It might not be much for the airframe...for anyone and anything that was in it and not secured and carrying on it the previous direction with their own inertia it's a different matter ;) (IIRC much lower forces and changes in direction of travel of the aircraft have caused aircraft to crash if sufficient mass has not been secured properly).

It might be something that is fun if you're expecting it (say on a roller coaster or an acrobatic aircraft), but if you're not then injuries happen and damage occurs.
 
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Soldato
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It's the nature of the drop, not the distance really. 178ft over 4 second is about 2400ft per minute, thats a reasonable rate when it's controlled. But it wasn't controlled and the flight data shows a sort of push/pull going on.
 
Soldato
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I've never seen a mention of gravitational force in relation to turbulence before...

I think it's poorly worded but they are referring to g force.

If you are interested gravity isn't actually completely constant around the globe, it does vary, but really outside of scientific measurement you'd basically never notice in practical terms.
 
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