Fat tax

[Glaucus]

No, not anyone can do that. Especially as people can and do visit, as well as against advertising and food labeling laws.

Show me a 100% grass fed waitrose product and ill happily buy it. As far as I'm aware they have zero. As so far you have showen no evidence for this and the only thing I can find is the usual market speel and then you look at small print and it says otherwise.
If I could buy locally I would, no one offers it though. And even those who look like they offer it, don't. Was looking at bison which is close enough to do a run. Al looked good, emailed them and guess what grain fed in winter. Like so many emails have returned that result.

So now you've done a 180 and it's no longer tell what you need from touch and looka t supermarket or what ever and you know follow the chain. Even then you still can not guatprentee anything. Unles should follow that exact animal for its entire life to your hand as a cut of meat.

 

[spoffle]

Personally, I think food companies should be regulated on sugar/salt/fat content.

If you have a dog/cat & it get's fat, you stop feeding it fatty foods - you don't put the nice food next to the healthy food & expect the dog to make the right choice.

Fatty food doesn't make you fat.

Which highlights what really needs to be done. People need to properly educated on nutrition, instead of the government forcing food companies to adhere to information that isn't even true, ie dietary fat = body fat, which an overwhelming majority of people think to be true.

Such things lead people to make poor dietary choices which doesn't help them at all with losing weight.

People are obsessed with low fat food, which is quite ironic, because usually the type of people who go for low fat food are trying to lose weight, and those low fat foods are what cause them to struggle with losing the body fat. When fat is taken out of food, they have to replace the flavour with something, and usually it's sugar.

 

[Efour]

i smoked from age 18 until 32. Tax (and inflation) on fags went up steadily year in and year out. I didn't quit because of the price, i quit because i wanted to.

Taxing stuff like this is just a BS smoke screen. £1.20 instead of £1 ooooh scary....

Educate the freaking kids at school, dump a useless dead subject like French and make/dedicate more hours for Home economics / food science.

breakfast and dinner clubs, teach the freaking kids that have "bad" parents what good food is. In turn they will teach their parents. Crazy but it works.

then in 25 years this bs fake smokescreen problem is halved
.

 

[spoffle]

i smoked from age 18 until 32. Tax (and inflation) on fags went up steadily year in and year out. I didn't quit because of the price, i quit because i wanted to.

Taxing stuff like this is just a BS smoke screen. £1.20 instead of £1 ooooh scary....

The tax isn't designed to make people quit, it's basically to monetize the situation under the guise of pre-emptively recouping costs that these people will apparently bring to the NHS.

 

[Efour]

The tax isn't designed to make people quit, it's basically to monetize the situation under the guise of pre-emptively recouping costs that these people will apparently bring to the NHS.

Diet coke - problem solved.

 

[spoffle]

Diet coke - problem solved.

How does it solve the problem? These diet drinks are worse than the sugary ones, because your body still reacts as if it's had sugar.

Aspartame and the other fake sweeteners are things to avoid in anyone's diet, if you're gonna drink fizzy sweet drinks, just drink the proper stuff and get it over with.

 

[Glaucus]

How does it solve the problem? These diet drinks are worse than the sugary ones, because your body still reacts as if it's had sugar.

Aspartame and the other fake sweeteners are things to avoid in anyone's diet, if you're gonna drink fizzy sweet drinks, just drink the proper stuff and get it over with.

How can you say that, it is not as bad at all. It's still not good IMO. But it's certainly not as bad. If a person is already fat, what do you think switching and consuming several hundred calories a day will do?

Most of the stuff people think about Aspartame is just Bs made up properganda by the likes of the corn producers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22252107
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22205311

 

[Efour]

How does it solve the problem? These diet drinks are worse than the sugary ones, because your body still reacts as if it's had sugar.

Aspartame and the other fake sweeteners are things to avoid in anyone's diet, if you're gonna drink fizzy sweet drinks, just drink the proper stuff and get it over with.

not much real human evidence at all and 1 or 2 studies. its all about protecting corn syrup producers.

 

[spoffle]

How can you say that, it is not as bad at all. It's still not good IMO. But it's certainly not as bad. If a person is already fat, what do you think switching and consuming several hundred calories a day will do?

Most of the stuff people think about Aspartame is just Bs made up properganda by the likes of the corn producers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22252107
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22205311

not much real human evidence at all and 1 or 2 studies. its all about protecting corn syrup producers.

I didn't mention corn syrup or anything else.

I was talking about how the body reacts as if it has had sugar, so releases insulin, which can mess things up just as much.

Also corn syrup isn't used much in the UK. UK coke for example doesn't use corn syrup.

 

[Glaucus]

I didnt say anything about corn syrup.
If you read the reserch paper.

Milk and diet cola reduced systolic blood pressure by 10-15% compared with regular cola (P < 0.05). Otherwise, diet cola had effects similar to those of water.

there were no indications of ASSD (aspartame-sweetened soft drink) increased appetite or EI(energy intake) compared with water.

The total EI (ad libitum EI+EI from the drink) was higher after the energy-containing drinks compared with diet cola and water (P<0.01).

So interested to hear why you think it's worse than sugar drinks.

 

[Castiel]

No, not anyone can do that. Especially as people can and do visit, as well as against advertising and food labeling laws.

Companies do contravene the law, that is clear, however it is easier for a small independent to do so than a highly visible entity such as Waitrose. And none of this makes your internet supplier immune, in fact the very nature of the internet makes it easier for them if they wish to deceive you.

Show me a 100% grass fed waitrose product and ill happily buy it. As far as I'm aware they have zero. As so far you have showen no evidence for this and the only thing I can find is the usual market speel and then you look at small print and it says otherwise.

Visit your local store, the Salisbury one has a varied range of different products and it includes 100% grass fed beef....You can also request they source items they do not stock normally as well, our local one gets me a type of Jambalaya sausage (Andouille) that is difficult to buy in the UK, so even if your local one doesn't stock it, they may be able to get it for you.

If I could buy locally I would, no one offers it though. And even those who look like they offer it, don't. Was looking at bison which is close enough to do a run. Al looked good, emailed them and guess what grain fed in winter. Like so many emails have returned that result.

what is you aversion to grain fed cattle?

So now you've done a 180 and it's no longer tell what you need from touch and looka t supermarket or what ever and you know follow the chain. Even then you still can not guatprentee anything. Unles should follow that exact animal for its entire life to your hand as a cut of meat.

I haven't changed my opinion even one degree, you made assumptions that I did not state. I maintain that you can tell certain things about chicken in particular simply by knowing what to look for. If you want to invent an ever increasingly ridiculous argument to dispute that then that is up to you.

 

[Guest2]

Seems like a good idea to me. All too often I see massive women in shops buying bags of cakes and diet coke

 

[Glaucus]

Companies do contravene the law, that is clear, however it is easier for a small independent to do so than a highly visible entity such as Waitrose. And none of this makes your internet supplier immune, in fact the very nature of the internet makes it easier for them if they wish to deceive you.



.

I don't agree with that big companies have far more legal clout and can hide stuff with sheer size.
Cmared to a small farm people do go visit.

I do shop in local waitrose sometimes, as they have a few of the more odd cuts of meat. They've never had 100% grass fed beef.

I've changed my diet over the last three months, I've been doing a lot of reading and trying to read the source medical reserch. I'm feeling better than I ever had whilst losing weight. I want to eat as naturally as possible and although its not where I want it to be its far better than its used to be. I've ripped up the common advice and done what I've knowen for the last decade though so many different eating styles. High carb, low fat does not suit me at all. As for grass fed. Grass fed has a good omega 6 to omega 3 ration, compared to grain fed, ideally it you should have around 2:1, grass feed beef dependings on many factors is 3:1-10:1 roughly and grain fed is as high as 20+:1, even a few weeks on grain diet destroys the ration.

My main conclusions are
Nowhere near enough decent reserch has been done
Far to much Epidemiology studies cited as fact.
That fat intake especially saturated has massively declined yet CHD is no better. The only improvments surprisingly matches the improvment in care.

I'm now basically eating meat/fish/seafood. As well as veg and a little fruit. Natural animal fats like beef dripping as well as butter, olive oil and coconut oil is back in. Veg oil is out. Carbs I get though root veg excluding potato and a few other very high carb veg. Although ill add more carbs in when I don't want to lose weight. But it won't be refined crap.

 

[No1newts]

castiel has a point though, can you prove 100% that the chicken you buy from whatever.com is actually pure chicken?

no you cant, you have to trust the butcher etc. Just like everyone trusted tesco et al, to say their lasagne was beef, when it was horse.

To Fez above, Children will eat what they are given and what their parents introduce them to, if the parents are morons and feed them rubbish they will crave rubbish. My 18 month old, has never had McDonald's, Juice, meat or dairy, does he want chocolate or a burger? no because he has never had it and doesn't know any different. The issue is that the society has moved away from healthy home prepared meals to quick fast fixes, until parents change its just one generation destroying the next.

Just to check.

Are you putting a McDonald's meal as equally bad as meat and dairy products?

 

[spoffle]

I didnt say anything about corn syrup.
If you read the reserch paper.



So interested to hear why you think it's worse than sugar drinks.

You so very clearly haven't read my post, so I'm not going to waste my time on you again.

 

[Glaucus]

You so very clearly haven't read my post, so I'm not going to waste my time on you again.

Or I have.
You said aspartame makes you eat more calories due to the spike. Yet the reserch paper shows no increased EI compared to water. Unlike the sugar version of coke.

So yes I'm still interested why you think it's worse and what you are basing the insulin spike on and thus IE consumption.

 

[godinman]

I vote we have a ****ing thick as pig **** useless ******* tax, take some money off the ******* cretin ***** who ruin everything and wander around like thick as **** zombies breaking stuff and ****ing it up for the rest of us.

 

[spoffle]

Or I have.
You said aspartame makes you eat more calories due to the spike. Yet the reserch paper shows no increased EI compared to water. Unlike the sugar version of coke.

So yes I'm still interested why you think it's worse and what you are basing the insulin spike on and thus IE consumption.

If that's what you think I said, then I refer you to the post you quoted, again.

 

[R.P.L]

Or I have.
You said aspartame makes you eat more calories due to the spike. Yet the reserch paper shows no increased EI compared to water. Unlike the sugar version of coke.

So yes I'm still interested why you think it's worse and what you are basing the insulin spike on and thus IE consumption.

Meh... Diet Coke is still full of nasty man-made crap, so I don't really see the point of this debate.

 

[Castiel]

I don't agree with that big companies have far more legal clout and can hide stuff with sheer size.
Cmared to a small farm people do go visit.

The larger, more visible retailer is subject to stricter and more regular compliance than the small farm, and farm shops do not have to abide by many of the same regulations that apply to the larger retailers.

I do shop in local waitrose sometimes, as they have a few of the more odd cuts of meat. They've never had 100% grass fed beef.

My local one does. It also has a wide range of organic Duchy farmed beef as well.

I've changed my diet over the last three months, I've been doing a lot of reading and trying to read the source medical reserch. I'm feeling better than I ever had whilst losing weight. I want to eat as naturally as possible and although its not where I want it to be its far better than its used to be. I've ripped up the common advice and done what I've knowen for the last decade though so many different eating styles. High carb, low fat does not suit me at all. As for grass fed. Grass fed has a good omega 6 to omega 3 ration, compared to grain fed, ideally it you should have around 2:1, grass feed beef dependings on many factors is 3:1-10:1 roughly and grain fed is as high as 20+:1, even a few weeks on grain diet destroys the ration.

You are aware that beef stock raised on 75% grass diets (as much of the British Cattle are) is going to have similar levels of leanness and omega fats etc as 100%...it is only when compared to predominantly grain fed beef stock that the differences are measurable.

And a diet should be low carb, low fat and high protein, with the protien element being eating first and the carb element being the last. Also grass fed cattle doesn't necessarily mean it is not subject to antibiotics or other chemicals and production techniques. Sometimes it is better to select your own cuts and then you can see the leanness of the cut and talk to the butcher about the best cuts for your requirements.