FIA Formula E Championship

[Glaucus]

As some of you may be aware, the European Commision has approached F1 and are wanting a totally Electric support race to further technology and to promote electric cars to the public, to aid a faster switch over period from petrol.

EU Seeks Buzz from Electric Cars

The European Commission has asked Formula One’s governing body to set up a racing championship series for electric cars, as a way of increasing public awareness and excitement about new-technology vehicles.

Jean Todt, president of the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile, told the Financial Times that the governing body was working with commissioners to create new electric car, go-kart and single-seater racing categories, raising the prospect of an F1-style electric car championship on Grand Prix circuits.

Mr Todt has set up an electric-car commission unit within the FIA, headed by Burkhard Goeschel, a former BMW director.

“We want as soon as possible to have new categories with new energy,” said Mr Todt, who added that a first season for electric car racing could come as early as 2013 and would be as global as the FIA could make it.

“As much as we can do it all over the world, we will do it,” he said.

The idea has been discussed by Mr Todt and Antonio Tajani, the European Union’s industry commissioner, who is pushing EU member countries to increase public adoption of electric cars.

“One of the priorities of my mandate is to give a concrete start to the ultimate conversion of the European car industry,” Mr Tajani, who discussed the idea of an Electric Grand Prix with Mr Todt during a visit to Paris in December said.

Mr Tajani said he hoped the event would use F1’s media muscle to stir consumers’ interest in electric vehicles.

Nissan, General Motors [GM 22.07 -0.96 (-4.17%) ] and PSA Peugeot Citroën have launched battery-powered models in the US, Japan and Europe.

More electric and plug-in hybrid cars are on their way from other groups, including Renault, Daimler and BMW but carmakers and policymakers say they will need big consumer subsidies and public investments in recharging infrastructure if they are to gain mass-market acceptance.

Mr Tajani in April published a road map for clean cars that, among a series of measures intended to help speed electric vehicles on to European roads, called for common electric chargers.

The EU has also made loans of more than €6 billion ($9.6 billion) to the industry via the European Investment Bank’s green car initiative.

Mr Tajani has warned about the dangers of losing ground to China, the US and other competitors that are revving up their plans to capture what could be an industry of the future.

The project fits into Mr Todt’s strategy for getting the teams of F1 and other motorsport series to embrace hybrid and electronic technology, and to use the global reach of F1 to foster better public understanding of issues such as green energy and road safety.

But he is meeting resistance from Bernie Ecclestone, F1’s commercial supremo, over his plan to introduce small-capacity turbocharged hybrid engines from the 2013 F1 season.

“The racing community are only interested in how to improve performance because they want to win,” Mr Todt said in a FT interview.

“If you speak to the boards of manufacturers they feel a strong interest to implement the technologies, which are not so obvious for the sporting community because it costs money and research and it doesn’t improve performance, and I understand that.”

Now a company has started designing and building a prototype

http://www.fondtechf-rev.com/

Formula REV is renowned motorsport aerodynamicist Jean-Claude Migeot and his engineering company FondTech’s vision of a future Racing Electric Vehicle (F-REV) championship.

Once completed early next year, FondTech’s initial F-REV concept – E-11 – will break new ground as the world’s first single-seater racing car conceived, designed, built and developed from the ground up to be wholly powered by electricity.

Utilising expertise gleaned from its four decades of Formula 1 and motorsport experience, FondTech and subsidiary Aerolab have spent the past three years researching the requirements of such a series, as well as developing the E-11. This is a result of the growing appetite within the industry and amongst the public to see motorsport embrace clean technology whilst maintaining current levels of performance, in this case a Formula 3 single-seater.

F-REV includes a number of radical ideas not widely embraced in single-seater racing before: an open championship unhindered by performance-curbing regulations which drives innovation through technological advance. E-11 is a first attempt at harnessing these properties.

In the spirit of competition FondTech has shared its findings with the Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA) who the company hopes will incorporate a similar vision into its own future all-electric series. Indeed, with the world governing body recently inviting tenders for such a championship, it is clear that this concept is gathering pace.

Features:
•** *Split-level, custom design, carbon fibre chassis from front to rear axle: energy storage systems and powertrains housed in the lower part and driver’s survival cell in the upper one.
•** *Front and rear removable crash structures.
•** *Conventional push rod front and rear suspension layouts.
•** *Lithium-ion battery cells installed in three identical packs, easily removable from below.
•** *Four identical motors and reduction gears to driving shaft allowing 4WD and 4WRegeneration (final ratio adjustable).
•** *Four identical wheels echo E-11’s road car counterparts.
•** *Low drag and high efficiency aerodynamics with partially covered wheels, venturi-shaped sidepods, rear central diffuser and adjustable front and rear wings.
•** *Water cooled motors and inverters. Air cooled battery packs.
•** *Total weight, including driver, 800kg.

Performance:
•** *Max power in/out at the shafts: 300kW (limited to ~170kW max output)
•** *0 to 100km/h: 3.2secs
•** *Top speed: 260km/h
•** *Range: 50km (at racing speed – approximately 20min)

Timescale:
•** *February 2009
Initial ideas and discussions
Early computer simulations begin

•** *August 2009
Technical regulations drafted
Initial contact with the FIA
Car concept design ends

•** *September 2009
Aero development (CFD) begins

•** *December 2009
Power plant specified

•** *May 2010
Project E-11 commences

•** *July 2010
Battery cycles bench tested

•** *September 2010
E-11 specifications frozen
Suppliers identified

•** *March 2011
Mechanical design finalised

•** *June 2011
Motor and gearbox bench tested
Wind tunnel model tested (60% scale)

•** *July 2011
Detail design and chassis manufacturing begins

•** *January 2012** *** *** *
Car ready to begin testing

•** *July 2012** *** *** *** *
First public demonstrations

Now personally I'm really excited about this. Electric is the future and it offers the potential for much fast acceleration than petrol. as the technology is so "new" and lets be honest woefully inadequate(battery, energy recovery) there should be plenty of real development which has sorely been missing from F1 for a fair time.
However due to the height of the car, it looks fugly. Also with so many companies pushing electric cars, I can see a lot of interest for it.

http://www.formulec.org/en/projet_presentation.html

The Vision
Motor racing has always been the laboratory for and showcase of the most innovative technologies.

Formulec intends to become the sporting development platform for car makers and energy industrialists who seek to increase the performance of electrical vehicles.

With its partners and under the technical management of its engineering specialist SEGULA Matra Technologies, the automotive branch of SEGULA Technologies, Formulec has imagined and designed this first high-performance, fully electric single-seater, the EF01.

Since its first test run on 15th September 2010, the EF01 has proved to be a top-performer with very high potential.

This single-seater combines speed and efficiency with respect for the environment and sustainable development. In so doing, it foreshadows motor racing of tomorrow.

From 2011, as openers on numerous circuits throughout the world, the EF01 will make a promotional tour, sometimes in duels with combustion single-seaters in dramatic challenges.

A Formulec world series, of 10 events per year exclusively for the EF01, will be launched the following year, in 2012, and continue in 2013. This will enable drivers to measure themselves at the wheel of the EF01 throughout the world.

Soon a world championship will be organized for industrialists and car makers who have developed an electric single-seater.

These single-seaters must conform to the rules which will be based on all the technical and sporting lessons learned from the Formulec monotype world series.



The EF01 represents the combination of the best electric single-seater technologies.

It brings together performance and efficiency with respect for the environment and sustainable development.

It equals the performance of its prestigious cousin, the Formula 3, and its combustion engine.

20-25mins run time depending on track
0-60 in 3 seconds
150mph top speed

 

[Glaucus]

Hydrogen will never take off. It's to hard to produce, to hard to store and is a decade plus behind the leaders and won't catch up or on. most of the world has decided to use electric cars and that is where the governments backing is.
As for sound, it will be strange, but the racing and engineering, is much higher up the list than the sound. Although it may need a sound track. Saying that, that motor sounds like a turbine. Oh they need to hire a guy to put a music sound track over the top and delay transmision by about 5 minutes.

 

[Glaucus]

It's not replacing it, it's a support race. Not yet anyway. I have no doubt electric will become the top series, but thats a fair while away.

 

[Glaucus]

they have 2-3 the running time of a high mah lipo but cost like 10x as much, i dont see hydrogen winning while its not getting any goverment backing to reduce costs like electric is

And this is the sticking point and why it has already lost.
The infrastructure for electric is getting funding and has already started to be rolled out, along with almost all car manufactures selling electric cars, or have one planed for imminent release. Then you have the problem of hydrogen production and storage.
Most people only drive a short distance and the long distance you can do a fast battery change, which is much faster than filling up with petrol.


Oops gone of topic and I really didn't want to go into the whole petrol vs electric vs hydrogen debate.

Just a new spec series with as it says unhindered performance regulations (for the time being)

 

[Glaucus]

Other than fast battery swaps. No longer than refueling.

 

[Glaucus]

And there's another which has spent $500,000 (actually i think that's the same guy) on creating and storing hydrogen for personal use, still worse than batteries. At least with batteries you will have charging points, fast charging points, super fast charging points and battery swap stations. What's hydrogen going to have?
The appeal, infrastructure and more importantly funding isn't there. It's a format war and it's well and truly lost out to electric, governments have spoken, car manufactures have spoken.

 

[Glaucus]

How longs a formula 3 race?

 

[Glaucus]

I know about fuel cells, there is no hydrogen producing plants, a couple of prototypes in Germany, there are no hydrogen petrol stations,no grants for them and no support.
You can swap batteries, battery life isn't really an issue as you rent them.

Hydro/petrol fill up when needed and electric cars you simply swap the batteries which is actually faster than filling up.

How have you given an electric car an mpg, that makes no sense.

It's not that hydrogen is not viable. It's the fact that electric is ahead, has the grants and support and is getting the infrastructure. It has won the format war. Combined with the fact most people drive short distances and would only need ~10 battery swaps a year for longer distance travel. The rest is more than doable on recharging. Most people do a few miles to work, or to the shops. Well within the range of an electric car.

 

[Glaucus]

Im sorry Acid, but electric cars are simply not the future. They are just the buzz word at the moment that conveniently fits with the whole 'green' image.

Why aren't the future? They are in the EU 2050 road plan and that is what all the infrastructure is gearing up for, where all the grants are going. There's also no issues with them, they can accommodate everyone's driving distances, despite what some of you think.

Now let's compare that to alternatives like hydrogen, any infrastructure? Any million pound grants for infrastructure? On any of the road plans that have been agreed to? Any car manufactures selling commercial products, let alone pretty much all the major manufactures.

 

[Glaucus]

Now give those top gear test hydrogen cars and see how well they do.

4minutes, blughhh so long. Battery swaps in under 40 seconds.

And remember this process has been slowed down to allow you to see what's happening

Your going to have to explain mpg, electric is replacing petrol, it's already started.
Electric cars do not use oil, so how do you get mpg.


Edit - so much for not doing this, in this thread.

 

[Glaucus]

That's BS p, the lithium supplies and requirements are in the other electric car thrEad in motors.

That's also ignoring carbon lithium matrix batteries. That slash the lithium required.

 

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Please dont tell me you buy into the whole 'Zero Emissions' BS too?

Nope, emissions is what ever the grid is made up off.

And you make it sound like I buy into electric cars, rather than it being fact.
Just go read up on EU road maps for energy supply and usage. Read up on all the schemes and grants for recharge points and what is already being installed, when demand is almost non existence. Now wait 5 years and then see what infrastructure is installed.

 

[Glaucus]

Not quick enough though. To many hippies and there 'nimby-ism' protesting against anything and everything.

The whole Zero Emissions marketing hype the manufacturers are pushing winds me up.

Actually we are on target for the national grid. In accordance with the EU road maps, despite the silly hippies. Just think how easy it would be with out those set backs.

This is just two of the current development projects underway and again think how much demand there is for it ATM, let alone what will happen once demand grows.

A national network of recharging points at service stations along the UK’s motorways launched today, making it easier for electric car drivers to travel the length of the country.
Clean energy firm Ecotricity teamed up with Welcome Break motorway services to install the UK’s first ‘electric highway’ network which will enable EVs to travel from London to Edinburgh or Exeter free of charge, without the worry of running out of power.
From September, electric cars will be able to top up in just 20 minutes using one of the rapid recharge points powered by renewably generated electricity. Every point is power by Ecotricity’s 100 per cent wind and solar power electricity.

The UK is to gain its first privately funded network of electric vehicle (EV) recharging points, with a staggering 4,000 to be installed by the end of 2012.
Starting in September, leading EV charging infrastructure supplier Chargemaster Plc will launch its ‘Polar’ project, with charging points initially appearing in around 100 towns and cities across the UK.
It is the first time such an initiative has been privately funded and will supplement Government’s Plug-in Places initiative, which currently supports the installation of charging points in eight locations around the country; London, Milton Keynes, the North East, Northern Ireland, Scotland, Greater Manchester, the Midlands and the East of England.

 

[Glaucus]

What, electric cars do lend them self to high speed sport. Infect much high acceleration and higher rpm. And all the torque from zero rpm. So again I can't see how you can say that. ATM batteries limit the performance. But electric motors have much better weight balance than petrol and with a fuel cell could far surpass petrol cars in the future.

And it's not trying to take over from F1, they are suggesting a support race at the same class as formula3. However once electric cars surpass petrol, then the manufactures will be wanting to switch to electric, anything to beat the competition.

 

[Glaucus]

Again go read the EU road maps. It's all planed and a massive reduction in energy consumption in other areas. We have 39years to reduce energy consumption and bring power production unto meet the need for electric cars.

It's like saying we could never supply all the fuel for cars, guess what we have.

Oh and where do you think all the power would come from to produce hydrogen? Then all the waste in transport and storage. Then waste in engine. Electricity is extremly efficient over the entire life cycle, compare to other methods.

 

[Glaucus]

well I seem to recall Hammond mentioning on tg the top speed limitations, and poor acceleration (but in a kind of way to suggest it was expected)

Storage + road car.
Electric does not really have a power curve. You pretty much get full power through the entire rpm range. Thus electric is far superior acceleration as said the limiting capacity is storage.
But it's not going in at f1 levels, the top level ATM seems to be formula 3 levels, with no hold back on technology development.

 

[Glaucus]

Or again, you swap batteries and hey presto you have your range with current tech and the infrastructure for electric is being installed.

 

[Glaucus]

How can you say it's irrelevent, that is where the money and development is being spent and as such the infasteuctire will gradually grow.

Hydrogen offers no benefits it's inefficient in all areas, has to be carted around like oil and is incredibly hard to store. Electric in comparison is pretty efficient in all areas, transported down a wire and you can top up all over the place including at home. again battery swap is not the same quantity as petrol refills, as you only need to do it on extended runs, just 10 swaps a year for the average user.

Take the average uk commute is just 8.5miles. Even if it wa 90mile commute. As long as you did an 8th shift your car would be fully charged for return home.

 

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We have the infrastructure and it's being upgraded at the moment in a 16billion project due to finish 2015iirc, and 9billion for connecting and coping with wind energy by 2020, as well as other upgrades. We already have an electrical infrastructure. We have basically zero hydrogen structure.

And no hydrogen can not be used in current oil infrastructure. It would just leak out everywhere. As well as oil storage not being stored under pressure or any of the Other hydrogen problems.

And you would need even more electrical power to create the hydrogen rather than electrical cars.

 

[Glaucus]

From what I've seen it's a clip on 'petrol pump' kind of thing to refuel a hydrogen car.
.

And what's that got to do with transport and storage?
Hydrogen is a tiny atom, compared to a long carbon chain. It has an incredible ability to escape out of storage,it also has to bestowed under pressure to get anything like a usable energy density. It can not and never will be able to use petrol storage or infrastructure.

And yes that's exactly what car manufactures and third party's are planning, slide battery pack out, slide fresh one in, all automated. Hardly hard or time consuming. In fact you ca slot a new battery in faster than you canto fill up a petrol tank. Why not watch the two videos in this thread.

With battery swap you don't need a bttery to do 500miles. Cost is subjective as price of oil keeps going up and price of electric cars will nose dive, as production ramps. There's even new batteries that should go into production in the next few years that are far cheaper to make as. They use a fraction of the lithium.