FIA Formula E Championship

[Glaucus]

Acid, i assume when you say 'swapping the battery' that would mean changing your empty battery for a full one at the equivalent of a petrol station? Rather than taking the spare batteries with you.

Yep, see the videos.


The average driver needs just 10 battery swaps a year. So its not a stagaring amount of extra batteries in circulation. The rest is done on recharging.

For example average uk commute is 8.5miles well within range and next to no time to recharge at work.
Even if you worked 80miles away, 7-8hour shift will see you fully recharged for return home. Even 30minutes fast charge should get you home and if you worked half a day, fast charge +normal top up, will give you a full charge for return journey.

And renaults little graphic

 

[Glaucus]

See thats the kind of thing that i and im sure many others hadnt even heard about with all the electric car hype. Surely thats a key point that should be advertised as the '8 hour charging' crap is what everyone seems worried about.

It's be uase there isn't any around other than 1 or isn't it two in Japan. Electric cars are certainly not for everyone yet,but they will be.

Next gen cars to be released in a year or two have even faster fast charge times. 20mins for something like 80%.

It's all coming. And by the time general public starts to take it seriously the infrastructure should be there.

 

[Glaucus]

Why do you need to do 100 cars a day.
Also where do you think you store them. In a building/underground. It's really not an issue.

Again An average driver needs just 10 swaps in an-entire year.

As to what happens with charge left in a battery, well my guess will be you just lose it. The cost is mainly going to be a sanding rental charge for the batteries rather than cost of electricity.

No standard ATM, but there will be.

Stations are going to be close together anyway and you only need it on long runs, so that gets over the change when your at 66% charge.

Why even throw 50miles in there? Even wost case is 73miles in a Nissan leaf and many people are getting the quoted 100miles and that's what I would consider 1st gen cars.

How viable is it to pump millions of barrels of oil out of the ground every day,refine those millions of barrels and transport those millions of barrels to every corner of the earth.
People see these issues and think they are huge, but forget what massive infrastructure, cost and engineering is in place for oil. It's nothing money and time to build new infrastructure.

Also there's nothing stopping several different battery technologies running side by side, as long as they are all packed into the same Standard container.

 

[Glaucus]

I still dont see how electricity works for long haul or on the road 24/7 vehicles. Or anyone who wants to do long distances in one go?

Why put so much emphasis on one go, is it really so much hassle popping into a garage for two minutes.

All are covered by swapping batteries. But they will be the last to switch to electric and by 2040-2050 who knows what range and things will be like by then.
Basically bathe roadmaps are for 2050, so that gives 39years of infrastructure and development. And by then iirc it's something like only 20% of vehicles to still be petrol and they'll be legacy.

It'll be a gradual change over.

I predict
Green people
2nd family car/people who rarely if ever do long distances
People who do long distances say once a week.
Heavy users
Driving, 24/7 long distance driving.

Even TNT have purchased an electric fleet for deliveries within London and are looking to do similar for other urban areas. Total distance traveled for them is very small.

 

[Glaucus]

snip

why is it an in issue, I didn't realise we had storage space issues. Or couldnt build buildings considerably larger than petrol stations. Or dig out massive underfloor holding tanks

Also remember it doesn't take 24 hours to recharge, someone dropping a battery of on the way to work, would be ready mid afternoon.
But really even 500 batteries isn't a big building.

 

[Glaucus]

I think your both convieniently forgetting about everry bus, coach, lorry, delivery van and taxi when stating 'most vehicles do less than 100 miles a day'.

I also imagine that on current battery technology lorrys will be doing single digit distances on battery packs. It needs an aweful lot of development to get anywhere near the hundreds of miles per fill up of current lorrys.

I totally get your argument about small commuter vehicles for urban driving. But there is simply no way that electricity will completely replace all petrol vehicles in 50 years. The technology simply doesnt support all kinds of use.

How am I conveniently forgetting it, did you not read the bit about TNt and a fleet of electric vehicles. Now they certainly aren't single digits.
Do you also neglect that it isn't a total swap over night. Why are you so resistive and like many people in this thread making non points, although I think a lot is down to not knowing about tech, grants, EU road maps and the rest.

Again did you not read my post, who said anything about replacing all vehicles in 50 years. Irc it's 80% in 39 years.

 

[Glaucus]

I would be very surprised if there arent well over 50m cars on uk roads by 2050. So thats 200 swaps per day. Can an electrician do the maths on how much electricity that would use up filling the batteries, as a percentage of daily UK use?

Would it not just turn the problem of oil shortage into a problem of electricity shortage?

And how much power to get oil.

There has been plenty of trials for electric buss already.

Again why do you want or need all swap overs over night, this week. There's no need and it's a very silly point.

10ton HGVs again already let alone in 40years +
http://www.vrl-financial-news.com/a.../ll-march/ryder-signs-uk’s-first-electri.aspx

Even if they never came electric what's the issues, with that? How does that suddenly stop 90% of vehicles being electric.

 

[Glaucus]

Why doesn't it make sense. A series with the potential of being the fastest in the world and at the cutting edge. That is well worthy of a series.

And please tell how replacing ICE cars doesn't make sense.

 

[Glaucus]

Because developing high drain battery technology for 20 minutes or 50km at full speed has what practical use for electric commuter cars, exactly?

Who said it did? However it would increase investment in battery technology, which would help many many areas, not just cars, as well as energy recovery.
How is it not a worthy series?
Its still worthy as long as the racing is good, it's worthy from a technological standpoint and it also does what the EU want. To advertise electric vehicles.

And there's huge amounts being invested and developed.
Another recent claim
http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...e-allows-lithium-ion-batteries-quicker-charge

There's high hope for nano technology and Graohene. But as yet nothing solid or in production, which is why I haven't said anything on it.

 

[Glaucus]

How does it not make sense in single seater? The potential is huge, it's at the foreground of technology. If it could be combined with an efficient fuel cell, you would have cars with much greeter acceleration and much better weight distribution, than current single seaters.
I really don't get why you are so against a single seater electric series.

Oh and it's using same batteries as road cars.

But by the sounds of it, it'll be upto teams to decide what they use.
Hopefully after track test well get to see Regulations and see just how up for it FIA and everyone else is.

 

[Glaucus]

The battery technology isn't different. So you've just made that up to try and bolster your point.
They are Lithium-ion battery's no different to EV road cars.
And does f now have many road car related tech. Do you see any f1 based engines in road cars?
So surly due to lack. Of real world use F1 might as well be scrapped.

 

[Glaucus]

First, why is there no road car technology in it? How do you possibly come to that conclusion, seeing as it states unregulated development.

How does it stop the aims of creating interest, development and advertising of electric cars.
Seeing as one of the biggest things will be energy density and weight. Something common to both sectors.

In the same way you use the EU roadmaps as evidence for electric cars on our roads, I'm using existing technology being developed elsewhere as evidence as to why single seater electronic racing is not going to take off. The big players have already put their eggs in baskets elsewhere.

Really that's pretty stupid, the two aren't the same or comparable.
They are making hybrids due to the regulations and the fact hybrids extend milage and so less fuel stops, something that is very important in such series. The rules do not allow for eggs in other areas, so again silly statement is silly. In fact just like most of your points that you made, by not reading posts or just plane lying.

 

[Glaucus]

The battery thing for a start.

It wont be 2013. A prototype isn't running till 2012, then they have to find 10 teams, set up contracts and everything else and give the teams a year to develop.

 

[Glaucus]

You said it didn't use same battery tech, but let's leave it and move on, I apologies for saying it..

It says Could happen as early as 2013 and the article is old. But used it as the prototype Is going ahead and I assume most people won't know about the purposed series.

 

[Glaucus]

If this series really is completely open, I think it could actually be pretty epic. Anything goes. 6 wheel race cars again anyone?

By the sounds of it there will be regulations, just not for power train and recovery.But nothings set in stone, so if it goes ahead it could all change.

 

[Glaucus]

The threads so far off topic anyway.

Why would you need 144 batteries an hour. You wouldn't swap batteries that often.

 

[Glaucus]

Average is 10 swaps per year, so some will use more some will use less. According to a study. So the 81 batteries per station is the correct number. The average takes into account heavy drivers. Add to the fact that it charges up in 8hours. Means you could theoretically slice that in 3 but demand won't be equal.
why 50. You could do a 70+ mile commute and still be fully recharge by the time you want to return home.
You have to remember you aren't a typical user.

The average commute is just 8.5miles in the uk.

Some of the soon to be release cars have a 125 mile book value, well have to wait to see what real world usage is, but someone like you wouldn't be an early adopter anyway, so the chances are high that distance will be increased anyway.

It would also be nice in city's, think how clean the air would be, with out all the carbon particulates and other compounds. Sod co2, look at real pollutants and energy security and economy if we get on board early. Shame uk is already behind and getting further behind every year.

 

[Glaucus]

Hefty price tag but

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703386704576186882013351002.html

Bet teslas 2nd car comes in 300,230 and 160 mile range variants. Tesla is also one of the manufactures looking at battery swapping

 

[Glaucus]

energy bills are already expected to rise by £300 a year ... i dont see how we can ever affored as a nation to have millions of electric cars on the road unless we buld a bunch of nuclear power stations, all this windfarm nonse needs to stop

and how can we afford petrol? And that's also rising. Yes it will require huge investment in new power stations. But that's already happening.
Oh and renewable energy now accounts for more than 10% of our national grid and will be at least 20% by 2020, so hardly a waste of time.

 

[Glaucus]

i can't realy talk due to the mass of vomit out of my mouth after reading the first post..........

Why what is wrong with an electric series, what have you got against it.