Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo, bargain or money pit?

I wouldn't buy either of the two in the OP... you can pay £500 extra for a Coop with lower mileage and better condition.

willd58 said:
The Coupe is a great car, and it is far from reliable.
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I started a huge reliability survey thread on the FCC forums when I was considering buying one and the general concensus was that it IS a reliable car when properly maintained.
 
Richdog said:
I wouldn't buy either of the two in the OP... you can pay £500 extra for a Coop with lower mileage and better condition.



I started a huge reliability survey thread on the FCC forums when I was considering buying one and the general concensus was that it IS a reliable car when properly maintained.
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The issue here is whether or not the things that need "maintaining" are problems or things that would fall under general car maintenance. To me, an exhaust manifold that goes every 50k unless you can get your hands on a revised one, is not general maintenance, neither are turbo's that go some times as early as 50k!

They are reliably problematic ;)
 
willd58 said:
The issue here is whether or not the things that need "maintaining" are problems or things that would fall under general car maintenance. To me, an exhaust manifold that goes every 50k unless you can get your hands on a revised one, is not general maintenance, neither are turbo's that go some times as early as 50k!

They are reliably problematic ;)
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The manifold is a known issue, but they can be welded and modified to prevent repeat failure. Turbo's going at 50k miles is simply indicative of poor maintenance and/or abuse. They are Garret turbos as used by many other manufacturers, there is nothing inherently unreliable about them.

Weak points are front wishbone bushes (replacement wishbones are reasonably cheap), engine mountings at higher mileages (not cheap!), rear radius arms (repair kit available), oil cooler pipes (steel parts can corrode and fail in old age), radiators can rot (as with many other cars of the era). The engine is strong and reliable if maintained properly; failures are usually due to upping the boost without checking the fueling.

Lots of people will love to tell you the the engine needs to come out to replace the cam belt, this is complete rubbish. It's a very tight squeeze to get to it, but any of the specialists will do a cambelt change for far less then a main stealer will charge, and do a better job. It's also entirely possible to DIY it if you have the skills and tools.

Contrary to popular belief, the red key is not vital. Lots of people own a coupe without this key and have never needed it, ECU's don't tend to magically lose their codes. You can clone existing keys quite cheaply if you need spares. The red key is a good selling point however, as it will discourage the lesser informed.
 
I've never ever ever heard of an ECU forgetting the code, it's burned into ROM.

I have heard of ECU failure tho, and there are 2 ECU's which can fail and require a red key. Without the Red key you need a new (or matching second hand set of) Engine ECU, Code ECU, and Red Key (actually it's no different under the skin from a blue key).

Sidenote: Don't get CODE 2 keys cloned, I don't think Coupé production ran into CODE 2 tho.
 
Neither of those cars for that money. You really want to stay away from a 9 year old Audi with that spec and mileage.

I don’t get this following / desirability these old Audis seem to have.
 
For that money I'd want a low mileage coupe - 30 or 40k most. For that car I'd pay 2.5k tops.

Coupe's aren't unreliable by nature but get one that hasn't been maintained AND driven sensibly you could run into problems and they aren't cheap to fix.

Nothing's certain but I'd recommend you read the forums at www.fccuk.org and see the problems you can get - buying a car from a member there isn't a bad idea as you'll often be able to read the history of the car just by searching the forum :)

I've done 25k miles in mine (75k now) and not had a single problem, all I've spent on it is tyres, pads, fuel and a service+mot once a year.

Equally I've heard some right horror stories - I guess the best advice is know your getting a good 'un, if you don't feel confident walk away.
 
I had a look at the that grey LE. The things that put me off was:

No red key
I don't think one of the cylinders was working properly
and one of the rear brakes was not working
 
Dogbreath said:
What made you think one cylinder wasn't working properly, was it obviously misfiring? That could be very bad (melted piston like mine had), or could be duff injector or coil pack which is simple/cheap fix.
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My dad (worked with cars for years) said it didn't seem right, we essentially walked away. I didn't ask him what exactly the problem was. It could be anything I suppose as you said. It then made sense when we found out it was clocked as the engine didn't as sound as sweet as others we've seen.

I've come to the conclusion that it is extremely hard to find a mint Fiat Coupe. I've been looking for months and I don't think I'll be getting one as essentially they are a money pit.
 
triggerthat said:
I've come to the conclusion that it is extremely hard to find a mint Fiat Coupe.
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Of course it is, the newest ones will be 8 years old, and you don't get many "mint" cars of that age.

I've been looking for months and I don't think I'll be getting one as essentially they are a money pit.
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A fairly ridiculous generalisation to be honest. ANY second hand car could turn out to be a money money pit, even with a warranty as they are almost always very selective about what they will cover. An old performance car certainly stands a higher chance of causing problems if it's not been looked after, which is why you should look at as many as possible before parting with your money.

If you don't have the budget to run a performance car, then go for something cheaper to run, but please don't splash out a silly amount of cash on an old hatchback just because it has an Audi badge.
 
I owned a Fiat coupe for about 3 years and sold it a year ago and bought a t5 s60. I loved my fiat coupe it was stunning to drive handled well and could out drag just about any car around. From a standard car at 220bhp by spending about £150 you can get it chipped add precise manual boost control and a dump valve and be seeing the right side of 250bhp.

However in 3 years of ownership from 57k - 92k I replaced 2 manifolds ( both the improved version they still go just as easy) the turbo once (and it smoked when i sold it) wishbones x 2, radiator, wheel bearings all round, handbrake cable, rear brake compensator, lots of split pipework on the intake pads and discs all round plus service every 6 months with nice oil etc.

That said I sold it to the volvo dealer and he seemed happy enough with the shed he bought. I drove that car very very hard as there is nothing like the feeling of leather seat pushing into your spine as your 5 pot engine roars through the big scorpion exhaust.

I got the 0 -60 time measured at york dragway at a drag day and it was certified at 5.51 seconds and a gps recorded 168mph. There are no other cars you can buy at that money that can do that sort of 0 - 60 and top speed and go round corners.


Sorry forgot to add I keep looking at them and being tempted but the fact my knuckles havent bleed from bashing a sharp edge whilst I struggled to change some tiny part fitted by a tiny Italian hand in a poorley designed place put me off.
 
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username said:
However in 3 years of ownership from 57k - 92k I replaced 2 manifolds ( both the improved version they still go just as easy) the turbo once (and it smoked when i sold it) wishbones x 2, radiator, wheel bearings all round, handbrake cable, rear brake compensator, lots of split pipework on the intake pads and discs all round plus service every 6 months with nice oil etc.
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In 3 years I honestly don't think that's too bad for an older performance car. I replaced at least as much on my MR2 during it's ownership. Brakes, pads and oil changes are consumables, even if they do get consumed quite quickly on the 20VT.

I'm guessing you had a reconditioned turbo? Many people seem to suffer from them smoking at a very young age, which suggests there are some cowboy outfits around.

The welded manifolds seem to last longer than new ones, provided they have been welded with the correct nickel rods which makes the join more flexible than the cast iron around it.
 
I agree it wasn't too bad (the wife and my credit card didn't however). I would never bother with a recon turbo ever again it's a waste of money. Mine even came from a "reputable" source. They never seem to last as long as a completely new one. When the tubby goes in my Volvo (won't be for years as they are very good turbos as standard) it is getting an uprated new one fitted.
 
I hope you don't mind me reviving an old thread but since there was some good advice here I thought other people might enjoy it more than a new thread started by me :).

I just bought a Fiat Coupe 20vt. It's not a car I've ever really wanted (I don't like the looks or the build quality or the questionable reliability) but by chance I saw this one for sale at a bargain price and fancied a new 'disposable' toy so I went for it.

It's been modified slightly. I'm not sure exactly what has been done. I think the big brembos on the front are standard but the exhaust, boost guage, etc certainly aren't.

I really didn't give these cars a second glance in the past but the performance is seriously underrated. The torque is electrifying when it comes on boost and 100mph comes up in no time at all. I had no idea when I bought it quite how quick it would be. When I first drove it in the wet it just lit up the Pirelli P-Zero tyres in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Anyway... does anyone know what the standard boost should be? My googling efforts haven't given me a definitive answer yet. I'm guessing there's a boost controller somewhere but I'm not really sure where to look. The car's last owner was clueless.
 
Using the standard EBV you'll get a surge to 1.2 then settles at 1.0 (not sure of exact numbers, try fccuk.org for more detail).. Boost will be lower at higher revs as the little turbo can't handle it :)

To be honest I'd steer clear of anything with a boost gauge as he'll have upped the boost at some point for sure (even if he's removed the controller now), hopefully your engine will be fine though - and as you say it's a throw away for you so no worries :)
 
Thanks Telescopio :).

I think I'm going to have to 'test' it a bit on the way to the datacentre this evening to see how much boost it's actually making then. It's damned hard to look at the guage at "maximum attack" though.

There are various buttons and dials which are obviously aftermarket and the boost guage itself has various 'modes' so I'm sure there's something techy I can play with.

Group 19 insurance was 'interesting' :eek:
 
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