Fiesta ST to Focus ST?

[Gibbo]

Focus ST is a great handling car. I've driven a few now and they are certainly very good indeed for what they are.

Have never driven an Impreza though so i'll have to go by what's in this video

Ohh I went there!

Yeah the EVO is the mans car.
The boys drive the Subaru's.

 

[NathWraith]

Not at all, the Focus is not an American car and is not sold in America (The US Focus is different to the Mk2 Focus over here). It is entirely European - from design stage to production stage. And the Civic certainly isn't refined, it's the rawest of the cars in question if we are discussing the 01-07 shape.

You could accuse the Astra VXR of being all about brute force for sure but the Focus has the right bland of power *and* control. It's certainly the precision instrument of the Astra VXR, Golf GTI and Focus ST trio.

No, maybe I didn't explain my point clearly.

The Focus in comparison to the Civic is more "american muscle car" style, I know it isn't american made nor designed.

I do agree that the Focus is definatly less brutish than the Astra VXR.

I was merely pointing out the Focus has a more "muscle car" approach than say the Civic type R I was comparing it to. In terms of refinement I was talking about the later models, 2007 onwards, and more about handling than power delivery. Of course the Civic will be a rawer car, you have to rev it to 9000rpm to get the all the power from it. It's all relative.

 

[MrMoonX]

regarding the earlier convo on fuel, I have an ST-2, the 3 isnt really worth it unless you have to have leather, anyone who says they get low 30s mpg wise is a liar! most you will see is 25 unless you have just reset the gauge, I tracked mine over a whole year using an iphone app that calculates MPG based on litres and miles, much more accurate than the dash, and I averaged 24.5mpg.

The Focus is supremely better than the fez, but its very thirsty and munches front tyres. I wouldnt spend less than £10k on one as the pre-facelift is looking dated and the higher miles ones are throwing £1k ABS pumps and Oil Diaphragms

 

[Sneaky Peaky]

No, maybe I didn't explain my point clearly.

The Focus in comparison to the Civic is more "american muscle car" style, I know it isn't american made nor designed.

I do agree that the Focus is definatly less brutish than the Astra VXR.

I was merely pointing out the Focus has a more "muscle car" approach than say the Civic type R I was comparing it to. In terms of refinement I was talking about the later models, 2007 onwards, and more about handling than power delivery. Of course the Civic will be a rawer car, you have to rev it to 9000rpm to get the all the power from it. It's all relative.

or put another way. Torque vs Revs

 

[[TW]Fox]

I was merely pointing out the Focus has a more "muscle car" approach than say the Civic type R I was comparing it to. In terms of refinement I was talking about the later models, 2007 onwards, and more about handling than power delivery. Of course the Civic will be a rawer car, you have to rev it to 9000rpm to get the all the power from it. It's all relative.

Makes a bit more sense now you've explained it like that

Yes, the Civic requires you to drive its doors off to get the performance - and when you do thrash it, it's quick. The Focus, being turbocharged, requires less effort to extract the performance.

Personally, I prefer the Focus - but I can see how the Civic might appeal. I didnt like either generation of the Type R's when I drove them.

I dont think its fair to say the Focus handles like a shed though, by all accounts the Focus is a brilliantly handling car.

And there is no bias from me as I'm hardly OcUK's number one FWD Hatchback fanboy am I

 

[rjk]

I dont think its fair to say the Focus handles like a shed though, by all accounts the Focus is a brilliantly handling car.

And there is no bias from me as I'm hardly OcUK's number one FWD Hatchback fanboy am I

certainly interesting. especially if fox is backing it

have a test drive booked for friday in a pre facelift ST2 so will see how that fares compared to the 05 impreza STI i drove last month. certainly not expecting miracles, but the 18mpg i got out of the test drive in the STI was veyr much a tough pill to swallow.

 

[NathWraith]

Makes a bit more sense now you've explained it like that

Yes, the Civic requires you to drive its doors off to get the performance - and when you do thrash it, it's quick. The Focus, being turbocharged, requires less effort to extract the performance.

Personally, I prefer the Focus - but I can see how the Civic might appeal. I didnt like either generation of the Type R's when I drove them.

I dont think its fair to say the Focus handles like a shed though, by all accounts the Focus is a brilliantly handling car.

And there is no bias from me as I'm hardly OcUK's number one FWD Hatchback fanboy am I

Aye, tbh I would chose the Focus over the Civic but that is just going off what I have heard about the cars and of course my opnion could be changed if I drove either!

But anyway, enough Civic vs Focus talk! lol

 

[Ace Modder]

The Focus doesn't have direct contact from the steering wheel to the actual wheels - digital delivery does make the car feel unresponsive and unnatural feeling imo.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The Focus doesn't have direct contact from the steering wheel to the actual wheels - digital delivery does make the car feel unresponsive and unnatural feeling imo.

See I'd completely disagree here - the steering in the Focus is one of its clear strengths. It's very much connected. It's been regarded since it came out as the 'sharper' steer.

The ST’s mix of sharp turn-in, almost zero front-end slip, huge mid-corner grip and predictable on-limit manners mean you can drive it harder than most rivals.

Highly skilled pilots will be able to cover ground at astonishing speeds in this car and will still be totally engaged by it. But even moderately skilled drivers will get a lot out of it, in speed and satisfaction: a rare and admirable achievement.

Any doubts we may have had over Ford's decision to replace the Focus RS with an ST model have disappeared in light of this road test. The Focus ST is one of the great hot hatches to drive, but its real achievement is that it's also one of the easiest to live with every day. No more, no less, it is the best hot hatch on sale right now.

It's an excellent car, really

 

[MrMoonX]

The Focus doesn't have direct contact from the steering wheel to the actual wheels - digital delivery does make the car feel unresponsive and unnatural feeling imo.

as does pretty much every other modern car, the facelift CTR is the same, was the worst car I have driven hence why I got a focus

the focus handles great and is very responsive, its no m3 but its easily the best in its class

 

[rjk]

The Focus doesn't have direct contact from the steering wheel to the actual wheels - digital delivery does make the car feel unresponsive and unnatural feeling imo.

its going to be interesting to compare the two mate

 

[pespro]

Ive got a Fiesta St but its in the garage at the moment. Got given a Golf Gti hire car and at first i thought it was amazing, but i soon got used to the increased pace and now dont 'feel' the acceleration.

The steering also feels wrong, afew times ive nearly clipped curbs because there isnt enough 'turn in' not sure if thats the word compared to the Fiesta St.

But i must admit the Fiesta has the worst turning circle ever, i will not miss that one bit. I guess that makes the car handle better at higher speeds but its awful at low speeds, the GTI was 10 times better at low speed turning even though it was a bigger car.

I suggest having an extended run with the Focus and just see how it feels after afew days. Does it still feel as quick etc, check the fuel comsumption, ive heard its horrible, as people have said on here about 20mpg.

 

[Firegod]

You could always just supercharge the Fez. I had 270bhp and 280lb-ft torque. Total animal to drive and I loved it. The noise was the sex.

Managed ~41MPG on the motorway and around town with some quick driving now and again I was getting ~27MPG. Still reasonable, and the way the Rotrex charger works means you don't need to upgrade the engine internals.

Only downside is you need to beef up your brakes and get an exhaust system. Standard clutch is fine, but will need to be replaced sooner rather than later at which point you could slap in a LSD.

Hope the Focus ST test drive goes well.

 

[rjk]

my main argument against modifying the fiesta was based on this.

i drove a mountune ST185 which was very nice but didnt feel all too dissimilar from my standard 150. ok it had more kick but i wouldnt call it a handful and it certainly wanst any more fun to drive.

looking into it on a semi regular basis, the cost of upgrades is very expensive in comparision [and that doesnt take into account the heavier depreciation on a modified car]

example here just using mountune as it is ford approved:

fez 150 - 185 upgrade £1877
Focus 225 - 260 upgrade £1139

modifying the car really isnt on my list of priorities, and even selling the fiesta for around the 5K mark would leave me in focus ST money if you added that £1877 to it.

any videos/pics of your fiesta firegod? sounds very interesting

 

[Cookie12]

I currently own a 57 plate Focus ST2 and have previously owned a 53 plate WRX STI and both cars are great. The Focus is definately a better car to live with on a day to day basis, but they are nowhere near the performance of the STI. It depends what you want out of it.

Fuel costs wise i'm not seeing a lot of difference between the two, but i do have a heavy right foot . If you drive "normally" then the ST2 will perform better than the STI because no matter how i drove the STI it was awful on fuel, but mine did have the TSL 333 pack, however don't expect anything above mid 25's mpg wise with the focus no matter how you drive it. You will only see above 25 mpg on a long run cruising in 6th doing 70mph "ish".

I know the subaru "burble" is legendary and i loved the sound the STI made, but i personally prefer the noise the focus ST makes, that V5 makes a lovely noise, especially with my recently acquired mountune cat-back system - i know this is completely down to personal preference.

As you mentioned in a previous post the mountune ST260 upgrade can be had for about £1200 (burns in congleton now offer this), and from comments on the STOC people who have done this say it does completely change the car and it becomes a bit of animal - this is next on my list of mods

The performance of the ST is very good, and the torque it produces is quite superb - the handling is very good for a powerful FWD car, but i haven't been in a Fiesta ST so i can't make a comparison.

Running costs can't really be compared, the WRX STI was very expensive in every aspect, fuel, tyres and especially brakes. When my STI needed front discs and pads i was quoted £400+ VAT from the main dealers, i know there are plenty of after market options available but all decent one's from my experience weren't that much cheaper. Focus ST wise your only major running cost in comparison to a WRX STI is fuel, everything else on a focus is cheaper, end of story. Opting for a WRX is pointless, yes they are 4WD but only produce around 225bhp (same as the focus ST) and as a previous poster mentioned you will just regret not going for a WRX STI. Yes there is always the option for modding a WRX but you can mod a focus as well.

I live in tunstall mate and i'm a regular visitor to OCUK headquarters and if you ever want to meet up and have a go in the focus without having the watchful eye of a dealership sales man with you then i'm happy to come and meet up and take you for a spin.

PS - Gibbo if your reading this i have been very jealous for years of your lovely history of motors. - seeing you mustang outside the old OCUK at fenton always put a smile on my face

 

[Firegod]

my main argument against modifying the fiesta was based on this.

i drove a mountune ST185 which was very nice but didnt feel all too dissimilar from my standard 150. ok it had more kick but i wouldnt call it a handful and it certainly wanst any more fun to drive.

looking into it on a semi regular basis, the cost of upgrades is very expensive in comparision [and that doesnt take into account the heavier depreciation on a modified car]

example here just using mountune as it is ford approved:

fez 150 - 185 upgrade £1877
Focus 225 - 260 upgrade £1139

modifying the car really isnt on my list of priorities, and even selling the fiesta for around the 5K mark would leave me in focus ST money if you added that £1877 to it.

any videos/pics of your fiesta firegod? sounds very interesting

I was just throwing it in as a curve ball mate, lol. I know some people do not like to modify exactly because of the reasons listed. You either do or you don't. No worries.

With regards to what I suggested though, Montune and the likes aren't even in the same league when compared to the JS Supercharger upgrade.

Sadly, no video's of mine as I never did any. But here's some pictures for you of mine, and a video of a lad who is running 330bhp from the owners club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGyHxqvI-ik

^ Watch till the end and you'll see the speedo. It's rapid.

 

[Fr0dders]

Didn't realise Hawkeyes could be had for that much!

2 gens behind and all over 4 years old now They still look fresh mind.

 

[Ace Modder]

2 gens behind and all over 4 years old now They still look fresh mind.

But the best looker out of all of the Impreza's imo

 

[rjk]

But the best looker out of all of the Impreza's imo

indeed - the hawkeyes do look superb. i would have one in a snap but it cant happen at the moment.

 

[rjk]

right then
had a busy day on friday.

arrived at the ford garage in the morning, had a brief chat with the salesman about various things. the bad news was the focus RS they were putting out for me got sold so that was a slight dissapointment. either that or their BS radar was set to high.
we stepped outside with the keys to a 59 plate orange focus st2. the car was more orange than an air hostess and immaculate all round. the car had everything standard but had Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tyres all round. the car had done 15k and was traded in because the previous owner couldnt afford to run it.

we started off with a nice cruise down the dual carriageway for about 10 miles. instantly noticable was the comfort of the interior and the feel of the seats. far, far superior to my fiesta st.
the car cruised in 6th well and felt like it had a great deal of pull. even at 2.5k revs it was subdued and pleasent to be in. the MPG was in the high 20s.

we pulled off at a roundabout, and got onto some very familiar country roads. the car instantly came alive with the turbo building up boost whenever it wansnt on the attack.
the steering felt very responsive and the car felt very similar to the way my fiesta handles. the suspension felt a little less abrupt than my fiesta, it was hard but comfortable. the car was a lot more manageable than i expected and i didnt feel much bodyroll in the twisties.
i was most imporessed by the adjustments for the steering, the sales rep suggested to set the steering to the heavier setting and this did feel a lot better in the tight corners. the car sounded brilliant when on the attack, a lovely sound from under the bonnet and a marked difference from 6th gear cruising speeds.
the handling from the car was very impressive in the corners and i was presented with a surprising amount of grip even when pushing and totally preparing for understeer.
i was impressed by the way the car felt planted even when pushed, not what i expected from a front wheel drive car at all.
after arrving back at the garage i noticed the mpg had plummeted to low 20s, expected it really from the feedback in this thread but still shocked. i was holding back a bit as the garage rep was letting me push the car, but as i wasnt used to the car i wasnt putting it down too heavy.
overall i really liked it, would be interesting to drive a pre-facelift example just to see if it changes my opinion at all.

on the way home i spotted a WRX STI outside a fiat garage. it was a bug eye but a very clean example. within literally three minutes of being on the forecourt, i had the keys in my had and a smile on my face. after getting some heat into the engine, the guy who came out with me admitted that whilst the car had been with them less than a week, he had low expectations of a sale. i told him that the sticker price was far too high and it wouldnt sell for that money in a month of sundays.

the car was very different to the focus. the turbo kicked in a lot later but the car felt hostile all of the time. only got a chance to drive on country roads but they are close to my house and i was very familiar with them. the car was a little easier to push than the focus and held on for dear life at everything i did with it. the interior was noticably inferior to the ST. the seats, whilst comfortable didnt feel like they held you in position as well as the recaros in the focus. the dash was sparse and felt cheap and tacky in comparision. neither are exactly bmw/merc standard inside but i expected a little more from the subaru. the hawkeye i drove earier this year was certainly an improvement but not a patch on the ST.

the subaru was dominant on the backroads, always on the boil and unrelenting at all times. the engine sounded amazing and the uprated exhaust brought all the burbles and pops that i expected. a noted improvement from the entirely stock hawkeye i drove before. the only thing i didnt like about it was that the car felt like it was going to rip my head off if i gave it the chance. whilst this is not a bad thing, day to day it could have become tiresome.
after arriving back at the garage, the salesman was doing his best to get rid of the car. offering me close to 2k off the sticker price and a very favourable part ex for my fiesta.
whilst appealing i simply couldnt justify the car at all. it was certainly faster and more aggresive than the focus, but ceraintly lacked the ability to be a day to day car.

this has beein interesting comparing the two as i want to try a WRX out now to see if it is a bit more reserved.

i am impressed by the focus most so far but feel its only going to be fair to test drive a WRX to see if i get convinced by a subaru.