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FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE (SPOILER TALK)

Discussion in 'Console Games & Hardware' started by wingman, Apr 8, 2020.

  1. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    So long as it's okay with the mods, I've created a spoiler talk thread to accompany the main FFVII Remake thread, as in the next week or two it could get extremely difficult to see the wood for the trees.

    Goes without saying, massive spoilers ahead, do not read unless you've finished the game or don't care about spoilers.
     
  2. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    If I were going to create this game myself, I'd have made very little changes, if any at all.

    It's been such a faithful retelling of the story, and having played the original probably a hundred times, there's so many little bits and pieces that they nailed. The whole mood, and some of the weirder, general FFVII stuff, all perfectly on brand.

    There's a fair amount of what feel like fetch quests, and I didn't indulge in a lot of them. Would've I preferred one game, roughly the same length as the original, with the same graphics of the Remake but a load of the content from this one taken out? Ask me again if/when the entire "game" is finished. At the moment, my answer is yes, I'd have liked a roughly 1:1 game as the original with the uprated graphical, musical, and voice acted elements. In fact I'd have taken one that had the graphics of, say, XIII, or even X-2 at a push. They could've remade FFVII on any PlayStation since the PS1 and I'd have loved it I think.

    I've only just finished it this afternoon so I need time to organise my 35 hours of gameplay, since Friday afternoon, into something cohesive.

    I sincerely hope the opinion of it being a split timeline is wrong.

    And, I'm of the opinion that it isn't correct. And I base that assertion off of Advent Children and Crisis Core.

    We've already seen all of the foretelling. Aerith (I really struggle calling her that, she's always been Aeris) dies, it's tragic, but it's also part of what made the original so great. Aerith getting to live feels cheap, and her sacrifice means nothing. Besides, we know she doesn't die, since nobody dies, they just return to the planet.

    In terms of sending the story in any other direction, i.e. a different path where Aerith still dies, then I'm not sure. All the while playing this part 1 I've been imagining what the Gold Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, Rocket Town, Temple of the Ancients, Chocobo farm etc. will look like fully rendered with the new graphics, and all the other little places in between.

    My theory is that extra content at the end of Midgar, i.e. the battle with the whispers and Sephiroth (which isn't actually Sephiroth, as his body is in the Northern Crater), is mostly fan service to whet the appetite of the fans. Can you imagine how much of a anticlimax it would've been just to leave it at the end of them just walking out of Midgar? This way they've managed to squeeze in a fight with Sephiroth, an early fight with Jenova, leave you on a massive high, and also show bits and pieces from Crisis Core. It's all lore, as far as I'm concerned, and all canon.

    Where that doesn't make sense if the bit about the unknown story etc. But I think that's just Square Enix toying with us.

    Still, an interesting take, and it wouldn't totally surprise me if true. But I know a lot of fans wouldn't be happy with that.
     
  3. eggyoke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 25, 2005

    Posts: 2,526

    Location: On a hill

    I'm conflicted about the ending. I got the feeling that the developers suddenly panicked about either the length of the game or it not feeling enough like a genuine standalone game and so decided to go ape-**** with convoluted and out of place battles and sequences. Whereas everything before it was perfectly paced, intriguing and deliberate, this felt completely ham-fisted in to try to prolong and big up the ending. And the thing is, they didn't need to do it. Sometimes simple is more and I think it would have worked better.

    Also am I right in now thinking that Whispers are an entirely new abstract idea that is not related in anyway to the original FF7 story? When you come across them earlier in the game, I thought it was going to be like some awesome new take regarding Jenova growing stronger because Hojo was feeding her mako in the lab, and so she was using her powers to influence events and Cloud/black cloaked men for the Reunion to happen and to get her out of Midgar... but apparently no, it's nothing to do with that, instead they're basically the embodiment of fate which can now turn into a colosus and spoil the big events of FF7 storyline at any point. It feels more like something from Kingdom Hearts.

    It sounds like I'm ranting and negative I know, 99% of my time with this game was pure joyous and I would recommend it to anyone to play. But after that ending I'm going to be worried about future instalments instead of just plain excited which I should be. Even Aerith at the end when she gives her speech, I got the feeling that it was the developers themselves speaking to the players about how the future isn't going to be like we think and to "come along with us together through this tear in fate as we change the future."
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2020
  4. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    That's trying to be my main take from this game, I paid full price for it and I'm not disappointed with it at all from a cost to gameplay perspective.. It lives up to a full game and them some. I'm on my 52nd hour, and I'm only on a smidge over 50% of the achievements. I reckon there's another ten-fifteen hours of content at least.

    As yous say below, 99% of it is pure class.

    I didn't initially get that when I first completed it but reading and thinking on it some more, it really does start to make less and less sense. I was originally convinced the only reason for the Whispers is to give a padded out story, and for the Jenova and Sephiroth fight (which I don't dislike at all, in fact, they're epic battles as far as I'm concerned).

    I'm now replaying the original and yeah, there's nothing about Whispers, from an overt point of view at least. But you have to question how Cloud managed to fall from the Sector 5 bombing and land perfectly on Aerith's/Aeris' flowerbed. Perhaps they were there, and now they're elaborating on it.

    And therein lies the issue, it has Nomura's style all over it, which I can't (typically) stand. Let's see how crazy he wants to go with the future installments and hope/pray there's someone at SE that can reign him in.

    There's still nothing confirmed to say it'll go in any other direction than the original game. This parallel universe crap might just be a method of padding out the rest of the game, but I'm not sure how neatly it'll fit in with the rest of the lore.

    Indeed, this remains my philosophy.

    I was stunned when I got to the end of the unfinished Midgar highway. I turned to my partner, already half asleep because I was playing for hours on end and into the wee hours, and I said "this is nearly the end now, they'll drop off the edge and that'll be it".

    Little did I know how much extra for left in store.

    Had it have just been a simple one of battle with Sephy - which can comfortable be explained into the FFVII lore due to Jenova being able to shapeshift - I'd have been over the moon.

    As it stands, loads of doubt in the direction of the following games (whilst being excited still), and lots to consider/reveal. You've got to wonder if they're just messing with us, too - and the entire intention is to finish it how they started.

    But, we live in a world that simultaneously contains a game like Kingdom Hearts convoluted story along with fantastic sales, so let's see.
     
  5. Simmz

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 30, 2003

    Posts: 2,447

    I just wish the whispers didn't look or act like dementors from Harry Potter haha =p
     
  6. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    My partner said the exact same thing. I'm not all that familiar with HP to make that much of a connection, but there's definitely a resemblance.
     
  7. Calo

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 11, 2016

    Posts: 359

    I just watched the latest Jimquisition show about spoilers (citing this game specifically) and then saw this post!

    Quick question for you - and I don't mind spoilers at all - as someone who hasn't played the original or this remake - should i just jump in to this modern version? Does it do everything that the original did for you?
     
  8. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    Hey bud

    What's the reason you fancy playing either, at the moment? Is it because of the attention the Remake has been getting?

    It depends on your tolerance for old school games. The original Final Fantasy VII is my favourite game, period. And I'm a heavy gamer. With that said I can see through its shortcomings in 2020 (hell, I could see through its shortcomings in 1997). But it's a wonderful experience, one worth going in with as blind as you possibly can.

    If you can "stomach" the old graphics and gameplay, and hilariously interesting Japanese to English translation, you're in for a wonderful, 40 hour treat. If not, the Remake is a solid option, but bear in mind this Remake pads the story out to an obscene level, any five minutes in the original can be anything up to an hour in this Remake, give or take. I.e. you could do the section this Remake is portraying in the original within 5-6 hours, but this will take you 40, at least.

    The Remake is expected to have an untold number of sequels, as it stands right now.

    @MOOGLEYS is probably as big a fan as I am will no doubt contribute to this discussion, too.
     
  9. Rids

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 30, 2008

    Posts: 6,285

    The original FF7 was my favourite game of all time, I absolutely love this one. I'd recommend it to anybody whether they have played the original or not. Its a truly great game.

    The story does deviate from the original, but for the most part it improves it.
     
  10. peterattheboro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 19,989

    Location: Middlesbrough

    Finished it last night. That last chapter was totally unnecessary. The whispers ruined the story for me. Enjoyed the fight with Seph though.
     
  11. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    I'm still convinced that's the only reason the Whispers were included, to create that fight with Sephy. I'd have been happy for it to end on a "boring" note, though, and remove all of that fight and Whisper inclusion.

    Interested to know what people think about the game once they've finished it who never played the original.
     
  12. Rids

    Soldato

    Joined: Sep 30, 2008

    Posts: 6,285

    I actually liked the Whispers, it adds a bit of tension in regards to the direction the story will take in the next installment. I broadly expect it to hit the same notes, but its now become less predictable.
     
  13. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    What I keep thinking is that, at the end of the day, it's still the same universe, the same characters, the same personalities, and probably will be the same locations too - so does the story slightly changing make much difference to how it could turn out?

    I mean, if they keep Aerith alive, I think that's a hell of change and not one I'd be fond of. But if they've got two timelines, one where Aerith dies and the team save the planet, and one where Aerith lives and Zack meets up with her, then I could be on-board with that.

    I don't know how that storyline will play out though, like, Zack carries Cloud into Midgar, Cloud isn't such the tough guy he is in the original, still meets up with Tifa, Aerith still gets captured, but now Zack goes after her after being betrayed by Shinra? Okay, cool, but how does that change things post Midgar?

    This is exactly what the creators of Remake want, I suppose, more questions asked than answered. And I'm always happy for a story to be less cut and dry and questions for years to come, I just don't want them to pull a Kingdom Hearts on us.
     
  14. .Lethal

    Soldato

    Joined: Jun 8, 2005

    Posts: 6,692

    Location: United Kingdom

    The whispers weren't introduced just to add that fight at the end.

    [​IMG]

    They were introduced to allow Square the opportunity to make some changes, Biggs and Wedge surviving including the whole end of remake also, but not that specifically. Going forward I absolutely expect further changes to the original story especially given what was said in the quote above. If I ask myself did those changes enhance my game play, giving me new surprises and experiences then it absolutely did. But like they say, and others here - if they go to far it'll hurt the game more than not.

    Pretty much, my thoughts above summed up. When Wedge survived I was surprised, in a good way. I like that they've made some minor changes, but I hope they don't go too far with them and make it less than what we experienced 23 years ago.

    I remember an old interview where someone from the team said how they weren't completely happy with how the story that was told in the original, as so much wasn't very well conveyed to the player, unless you went out of your way to understand it, and that some of these changes would better tell some of that story.
     
  15. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    Thanks for the insight lethal, interesting quote from SE.

    Yeah, I'd played the original FFVII many times until I found the bit about Zack and escaping the testing site in Nibelheim, on one hand I loved how much you could explore within the game if you wanted to, on the other, that's a critical part of the story and adds so much depth and explanation to the entire arc of Cloud's character. I imagine they're heavily alluding to that.
     
  16. peterattheboro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 19,989

    Location: Middlesbrough

    Sod hard mode. Wouldn't mind giving it a proper shot but the fact you can't use items and benches only restore HP means you can only break boxes to restore MP.

    That's too much chew on for me :(
     
  17. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    It forces you to play the game differently, and MP does restore in fights, so it's not the end of the world.

    Start on a chapter where you can grind and get your characters to level 50.

    Genuinely hard mode is a wonderful experience, I almost feel it's the way the game should've been set up. I only died once or twice playing it through on Normal, whereas Guard Scorpion killed me six times on hard mode, but each and every time I was improving and it made me realise how fantastic the fighting mechanics are.

    But fair warning, I'm someone who loves Sekiro...
     
  18. CraigN

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 30, 2005

    Posts: 2,551

    Location: Bristol

    Having avoided all spoilers and pre-release shizzle for this I have just got to the end and am super upset its not the full game. I had no idea it would just be a part of the game :(
     
  19. wingman

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 4,923

    Did you feel hard done by with the forty hours of content?
     
  20. CraigN

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 30, 2005

    Posts: 2,551

    Location: Bristol

    The game is excellent easily worth the money and I would pay £50 for similar length episodes. My playtime is about 26 hours.

    I was just super excited to get out of Midgar and had no idea that was it. I know I have missed stuff, chadley has two things I have not completed. But I thought I had a whole game to level up my materia and collect all the weapons.

    Its massive disappointment that's all. I want the rest of it, It came as a shock.