FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE (SPOILER TALK)

[wingman]

So long as it's okay with the mods, I've created a spoiler talk thread to accompany the main FFVII Remake thread, as in the next week or two it could get extremely difficult to see the wood for the trees.

Goes without saying, massive spoilers ahead, do not read unless you've finished the game or don't care about spoilers.

 

[wingman]

If I were going to create this game myself, I'd have made very little changes, if any at all.

It's been such a faithful retelling of the story, and having played the original probably a hundred times, there's so many little bits and pieces that they nailed. The whole mood, and some of the weirder, general FFVII stuff, all perfectly on brand.

There's a fair amount of what feel like fetch quests, and I didn't indulge in a lot of them. Would've I preferred one game, roughly the same length as the original, with the same graphics of the Remake but a load of the content from this one taken out? Ask me again if/when the entire "game" is finished. At the moment, my answer is yes, I'd have liked a roughly 1:1 game as the original with the uprated graphical, musical, and voice acted elements. In fact I'd have taken one that had the graphics of, say, XIII, or even X-2 at a push. They could've remade FFVII on any PlayStation since the PS1 and I'd have loved it I think.

I've only just finished it this afternoon so I need time to organise my 35 hours of gameplay, since Friday afternoon, into something cohesive.

I sincerely hope the opinion of it being a split timeline is wrong.

And, I'm of the opinion that it isn't correct. And I base that assertion off of Advent Children and Crisis Core.

We've already seen all of the foretelling. Aerith (I really struggle calling her that, she's always been Aeris) dies, it's tragic, but it's also part of what made the original so great. Aerith getting to live feels cheap, and her sacrifice means nothing. Besides, we know she doesn't die, since nobody dies, they just return to the planet.

In terms of sending the story in any other direction, i.e. a different path where Aerith still dies, then I'm not sure. All the while playing this part 1 I've been imagining what the Gold Saucer, Cosmo Canyon, Rocket Town, Temple of the Ancients, Chocobo farm etc. will look like fully rendered with the new graphics, and all the other little places in between.

My theory is that extra content at the end of Midgar, i.e. the battle with the whispers and Sephiroth (which isn't actually Sephiroth, as his body is in the Northern Crater), is mostly fan service to whet the appetite of the fans. Can you imagine how much of a anticlimax it would've been just to leave it at the end of them just walking out of Midgar? This way they've managed to squeeze in a fight with Sephiroth, an early fight with Jenova, leave you on a massive high, and also show bits and pieces from Crisis Core. It's all lore, as far as I'm concerned, and all canon.

Where that doesn't make sense if the bit about the unknown story etc. But I think that's just Square Enix toying with us.

Still, an interesting take, and it wouldn't totally surprise me if true. But I know a lot of fans wouldn't be happy with that.

 

[wingman]

Whereas everything before it was perfectly paced

That's trying to be my main take from this game, I paid full price for it and I'm not disappointed with it at all from a cost to gameplay perspective.. It lives up to a full game and them some. I'm on my 52nd hour, and I'm only on a smidge over 50% of the achievements. I reckon there's another ten-fifteen hours of content at least.

As yous say below, 99% of it is pure class.

this felt completely ham-fisted in to try to prolong and big up the ending

I didn't initially get that when I first completed it but reading and thinking on it some more, it really does start to make less and less sense. I was originally convinced the only reason for the Whispers is to give a padded out story, and for the Jenova and Sephiroth fight (which I don't dislike at all, in fact, they're epic battles as far as I'm concerned).

that Whispers are an entirely new abstract idea that is not related in anyway to the original FF7 story?

I'm now replaying the original and yeah, there's nothing about Whispers, from an overt point of view at least. But you have to question how Cloud managed to fall from the Sector 5 bombing and land perfectly on Aerith's/Aeris' flowerbed. Perhaps they were there, and now they're elaborating on it.

It feels more like something from Kingdom Hearts.

And therein lies the issue, it has Nomura's style all over it, which I can't (typically) stand. Let's see how crazy he wants to go with the future installments and hope/pray there's someone at SE that can reign him in.

There's still nothing confirmed to say it'll go in any other direction than the original game. This parallel universe crap might just be a method of padding out the rest of the game, but I'm not sure how neatly it'll fit in with the rest of the lore.

99% of my time with this game was pure joyous and I would recommend it to anyone to play.

Indeed, this remains my philosophy.

Sometimes simple is more and I think it would have worked better.

I was stunned when I got to the end of the unfinished Midgar highway. I turned to my partner, already half asleep because I was playing for hours on end and into the wee hours, and I said "this is nearly the end now, they'll drop off the edge and that'll be it".

Little did I know how much extra for left in store.

Had it have just been a simple one of battle with Sephy - which can comfortable be explained into the FFVII lore due to Jenova being able to shapeshift - I'd have been over the moon.

As it stands, loads of doubt in the direction of the following games (whilst being excited still), and lots to consider/reveal. You've got to wonder if they're just messing with us, too - and the entire intention is to finish it how they started.

But, we live in a world that simultaneously contains a game like Kingdom Hearts convoluted story along with fantastic sales, so let's see.

 

[wingman]

I just wish the whispers didn't look or act like dementors from Harry Potter haha =p

My partner said the exact same thing. I'm not all that familiar with HP to make that much of a connection, but there's definitely a resemblance.

 

[wingman]

Quick question for you - and I don't mind spoilers at all - as someone who hasn't played the original or this remake - should i just jump in to this modern version? Does it do everything that the original did for you?

Hey bud

What's the reason you fancy playing either, at the moment? Is it because of the attention the Remake has been getting?

It depends on your tolerance for old school games. The original Final Fantasy VII is my favourite game, period. And I'm a heavy gamer. With that said I can see through its shortcomings in 2020 (hell, I could see through its shortcomings in 1997). But it's a wonderful experience, one worth going in with as blind as you possibly can.

If you can "stomach" the old graphics and gameplay, and hilariously interesting Japanese to English translation, you're in for a wonderful, 40 hour treat. If not, the Remake is a solid option, but bear in mind this Remake pads the story out to an obscene level, any five minutes in the original can be anything up to an hour in this Remake, give or take. I.e. you could do the section this Remake is portraying in the original within 5-6 hours, but this will take you 40, at least.

The Remake is expected to have an untold number of sequels, as it stands right now.

@MOOGLEYS is probably as big a fan as I am will no doubt contribute to this discussion, too.

 

[wingman]

Enjoyed the fight with Seph though.

I'm still convinced that's the only reason the Whispers were included, to create that fight with Sephy. I'd have been happy for it to end on a "boring" note, though, and remove all of that fight and Whisper inclusion.

Interested to know what people think about the game once they've finished it who never played the original.

 

[wingman]

I actually liked the Whispers, it adds a bit of tension in regards to the direction the story will take in the next installment. I broadly expect it to hit the same notes, but its now become less predictable.

What I keep thinking is that, at the end of the day, it's still the same universe, the same characters, the same personalities, and probably will be the same locations too - so does the story slightly changing make much difference to how it could turn out?

I mean, if they keep Aerith alive, I think that's a hell of change and not one I'd be fond of. But if they've got two timelines, one where Aerith dies and the team save the planet, and one where Aerith lives and Zack meets up with her, then I could be on-board with that.

I don't know how that storyline will play out though, like, Zack carries Cloud into Midgar, Cloud isn't such the tough guy he is in the original, still meets up with Tifa, Aerith still gets captured, but now Zack goes after her after being betrayed by Shinra? Okay, cool, but how does that change things post Midgar?

This is exactly what the creators of Remake want, I suppose, more questions asked than answered. And I'm always happy for a story to be less cut and dry and questions for years to come, I just don't want them to pull a Kingdom Hearts on us.

 

[wingman]

Thanks for the insight lethal, interesting quote from SE.

I remember an old interview where someone from the team said how they weren't completely happy with how the story that was told in the original, as so much wasn't very well conveyed to the player, unless you went out of your way to understand it, and that some of these changes would better tell some of that story.

Yeah, I'd played the original FFVII many times until I found the bit about Zack and escaping the testing site in Nibelheim, on one hand I loved how much you could explore within the game if you wanted to, on the other, that's a critical part of the story and adds so much depth and explanation to the entire arc of Cloud's character. I imagine they're heavily alluding to that.

 

[wingman]

Sod hard mode. Wouldn't mind giving it a proper shot but the fact you can't use items and benches only restore HP means you can only break boxes to restore MP.

That's too much chew on for me

It forces you to play the game differently, and MP does restore in fights, so it's not the end of the world.

Start on a chapter where you can grind and get your characters to level 50.

Genuinely hard mode is a wonderful experience, I almost feel it's the way the game should've been set up. I only died once or twice playing it through on Normal, whereas Guard Scorpion killed me six times on hard mode, but each and every time I was improving and it made me realise how fantastic the fighting mechanics are.

But fair warning, I'm someone who loves Sekiro...

 

[wingman]

Having avoided all spoilers and pre-release shizzle for this I have just got to the end and am super upset its not the full game. I had no idea it would just be a part of the game

Did you feel hard done by with the forty hours of content?

 

[wingman]

The game is excellent easily worth the money and I would pay £50 for similar length episodes. My playtime is about 26 hours.

I was just super excited to get out of Midgar and had no idea that was it. I know I have missed stuff, chadley has two things I have not completed. But I thought I had a whole game to level up my materia and collect all the weapons.

Its massive disappointment that's all. I want the rest of it, It came as a shock.

I'm torn with your take. On one hand, it's been such a big part of the journey towards getting the game, and it's been hugely criticized since it was announced that it was to be episodic rather than a 1:1 of the original. So the fact you've missed that is both surprising and impressive.

I mean, it says it on the back of the game/online.

With that being said, I'm very interested in the people who will experience it like you have, and then be shocked when it comes about that it's not the original story. SE didn't include the episode number in the title, most likely due to the fact they don't know, and also the drop in sales. For some people, yourself in included, they're going to feel either short changed or perhaps lied to.

 

[wingman]

Totally missed the parallels between Cloud and Aerith not clapping hands in the dungeon where Cloud moving obstacles to get them to where they need to go.

This game is deep if you're willing to glean.

 

[wingman]

Oh wow, that's fantastic!

 

[wingman]

(except for 2 of them which I managed to miss).

You need to play the game twice to get those two, I assume it's the Chapter 9 ones where, depending on which options you choose, gives you two sets of quests.

https://psnprofiles.com/trophy/10660-final-fantasy-vii-remake/45-best-in-the-business

Well to me it looks as though they're going to be going down a different route to the original

There's various theories, some say that it'll be completely different, others say Sephiroth is showing them these visions trying to establish that if these things happen, then it's bad for the world, but we all know that with those events unfolding, Aerith is still able to save the planet, so he could just be messing with them.

Similarly, the whole over-world map isn't going to work in conjunction with how games are nowadays, so I'd expect some of the plot points to be changed in response to that. Imagine Part 2 will start at Kalm, going over more backstory. I'd have thought Chocobo Farm will be moved, deleted, or entirely changed in scope.

 

[wingman]

Sephiroth isn't showing us anything, the arbiters of fate are. The arbiters want to keep fate/destiny the same, the same story that was told in the original FF7 game. In remake you're fighting against that fate by defying it, making your own choices and fighting against it - as this story leads you. It's not a theory, that's why they were introduced into the game, to allow the story to be changed in ways that it was.

How is it not Sephiroth?

You've defeated the Whispers/Arbiters of fate, so how are they still providing visions post that point?

It's Septhiroth that shows Cloud the world 7 seconds before its demise, isn't it?

Similarly, to say something "isn't a theory" with this particular game seems shortsighted, literally anything is possible with the next entry as it's been left totally open. This is a forum for discussion, not shooting down anything that goes against your interpretation of the game.

 

[wingman]

No, it's the Arbiters of Fate showing a vision.

I thought that was after their demise, though? I’ll watch the video shortly.

 

[wingman]

Sephiroth isn't showing us anything, the arbiters of fate are.

It says in-game that it's Sephiroth showing Cloud the vision of the future.



Thank you for the write up, I knew most of this but having it in one place is hugely helpful to my overall understanding.

 

[wingman]

Sephiroth did show you, as a manifestation of destiny.

That suggests that absolutely nothing happens to any character at all, everyone is absolved from any single thing they do or say, because it's all destiny?

Sephiroth shows them, it's literally written within the in-game scenario.

 

[wingman]

Barret then gets killed by Sephiroth which was crap because everyone immediately knew he would never be killed off after being such a lead character.

For me, that scene is simply there to highlight that whilst the whispers are around, nothing can change what happens to the original story. Barret is in the OG throughout, so when he gets killed I don't think SE were looking for that "omg they didn't!" reaction from fans - at least they didn't get it from me - because we all know what happens throughout the rest of the game (or did, at that point).

My girlfriend, watching the scene and not knowing the original story, was shocked, so for people who haven't played the original it is probably an interesting scene. For fans, we all knew he wasn't dead.

I don't know what what else I can say to try and explain to you that it's simply not possible to have fought the real Sephiroth on the Expressway.

I don't know what what else I can say to try and explain to you that it's simply written within the in-game chapter summary.

With that being said I'm enjoying the discourse, I imagine this is just what the entire team at SE was looking for.

The questions I personally have is did we defeat the arbiters setting up our own fate, or just defeat them for now.

I hope they're finished for good. Their designs were bland and unoriginal, totally unfitting for the world of VII.

Why did they show a vision of Zack defeating the Shinra troops?

So Nomura can run two separate timelines, one with the OG clan, and one called Final Fantasy VII Remake 1.5 where we play out Zack's story in Midgar following his survival (cringe). In Crisis Core he dies in the rain, but in VIIR he defeats the troops and it's sunny. I immediately thought there's going to be more troops around the corner, but we'll have to wait until the next game for that to be explained.

Lots to look forward too.

Indeed.

 

[wingman]

I’m all for discussion but “says Sephiroth on chapter” as your only explanation for everything, isn't an engaging conversation, it’s denial when presented with 23 years of back story.

Documentation also says Clouds a 1st Class Soldier.

Oh well, thanks for the one sided conversation my dude.

You seem oddly bitter that I proved you wrong.