Finally looking to build a 939 system, looking for some advice

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:03

Hey all.

The upgrade bug has been lingering over my head for the past few months, but now its almost too much to bear! Currently getting weird issues with my nf2 system, such as the windows clock going really fast when I run at an FSB of above 166 or so (I run at 220, and the clock gains a minute every 10), so using NTP update every 5 mins to keep it in spec!

Anyway, I'm looking at going back to ATi, I currently have an Nvidia 6800GT, I don't want to spend too much on graphics, but what card will give me an upgrade in performance from my current card? Would an X800 GTO do?

I'm looking at getting a DFI motherboard, are there any benefits in getting one of the SLi boards if I'm going to be running an ATi graphics card?

Memory, I currently have 2x1024MB sticks of Samsung UCCC which happily run at 220MHz at 11-3-3-2.5, but my motherboard won't go much further without being unstable. Would this ram be suitable for new system, or would it need upgrading too?

I'm not sure whether to go single or dual core...the Opteron 148 looks good for the money...

From what I can remember, Tagen PSU's are pretty good, is this still the case, or do other manufacturers offer more for the money?

I know this post has been very poorly laid out, but atm I'm so frustrated, randomly adding products to the cart, then replacing them with other things, as I just don't know whats what in the 64 bit market.

Thanks for any help you can give, I know your all a great bunch

booyaka · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:32

Easiest way to clear this up

What budget are you working on?
What items are you considering keeping from your old pc?
Your 6800GT will do fine for the time being if your budget is tight - if not sell it.
Why do you want ATI?
Tagan are good supplies still, also seasonic aswell.

semi-pro waster · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:38

LadFromWales85 said:
Anyway, I'm looking at going back to ATi, I currently have an Nvidia 6800GT, I don't want to spend too much on graphics, but what card will give me an upgrade in performance from my current card? Would an X800 GTO do?

Nope it is on about a par with a 6800 standard so look to either a 7800gt or X1800XL(both around £200ish) as being the first real improvements you can make for your cash.

LadFromWales said:
I'm looking at getting a DFI motherboard, are there any benefits in getting one of the SLi boards if I'm going to be running an ATi graphics card?

Not really unless one of the SLi motherboards has a feature not present on the Nforce4 ultra based board, it should clock just as well as the SLi motherboards.

LadFromWales said:
Memory, I currently have 2x1024MB sticks of Samsung UCCC which happily run at 220MHz at 11-3-3-2.5, but my motherboard won't go much further without being unstable. Would this ram be suitable for new system, or would it need upgrading too?

That should be fine, A64s can run on a divider without hampering performance too much I believe.

LadFromWales said:
I'm not sure whether to go single or dual core...the Opteron 148 looks good for the money...

How much money do you have to spend and what are your main uses for your PC?

LadFromWales said:
From what I can remember, Tagen PSU's are pretty good, is this still the case, or do other manufacturers offer more for the money?

Tagan are good but also take a look at Enermax, Antec, Seasonic and Hiper as all make good PSUs.

If you want to give an overall budget and what you need replacing then it becomes easier to help

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 15:53

I'd like to keep the overall spend below £800, but can get funds to go higher if it were needed. I don't see a need in getting an X1900, overpriced, I'd rather buy a card with a better performance to price ratio.

I was looking at going back to ATi as I've read too many people saying the IQ on recent ATi's is better than nVidia's. I would stick with an nVidia if they have a card that offers better performance than a similarly priced ATi.

I want to keep my current case, Yeong Yang 0221 Cube, its a two partition case, but as (I believe) the motherboard side is shallow, I won't be able to use an AC Freezer

I also want to keep my current ram, as it appears as though it will be more than fit for the purpose, and I can always upgrade it later

Am keeping optical and hard drives too.

So that leaves me with

-Mobo
-CPU
-CPU Cooler
-Graphics Card
-PSU

Anything I'm missing?

I don't really game much at the moment, I currently only play MTA:SA and NFS:MW, which barely hits 30fps most of the time. As I have a Dell 2405FPW, I try to keep at resolutions that are 16:10, so I play NFS:MW at 1440x900, with AA up one notch, and its still not smooth. Apparently this is because the AMD 32bit processors have poor memory bus speeds?

Don't think I missed any of your questions, thanks for all your help so far all of you!

semi-pro waster · 11 Apr 2006 at 16:01

I don't know much about your case but I'm assuming since it is a 'cube' case that it either takes microATX motherboards or worse some special kind? This lot is well below £800 and should offer about the best value per pound you get I think unless you really want to get an X2 3800 and try overclocking, however the X2 4400 has 1mb L2 cache per core rather than the 512kb of the 3800.

GX-048-PC PowerColor ATI Radeon X1800 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-048-PC)
£194.95 £194.95
MB-134-AS Asus A8N-VM Micro ATX (Socket 939) PCI Express Motherboard (MB-134-AS)
£42.95 £42.95
CA-008-TG Tagan TG530-U15 530W ATX2.01 Easycon SLi Compliant Modular Silent PSU (CA-008-TG)
£69.95 £69.95
CP-127-AM AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA4400CDBOX) (CP-127-AM)
£283.95 £283.95
Subtotal £591.80
VAT £103.57
Total £695.37

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 16:25

It actually can take a Full Size ATX motherboard, and full length SCSI cards...
http://www.yycase.com/yy-0221.htm

Sorry for not providing more accurate info

helpimcrap · 11 Apr 2006 at 17:05

semi-pro waster said:
GX-048-PC PowerColor ATI Radeon X1800 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-048-PC)
£194.95 £194.95
MB-134-AS Asus A8N-VM Micro ATX (Socket 939) PCI Express Motherboard (MB-134-AS)
£42.95 £42.95
CA-008-TG Tagan TG530-U15 530W ATX2.01 Easycon SLi Compliant Modular Silent PSU (CA-008-TG)
£69.95 £69.95
CP-127-AM AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA4400CDBOX) (CP-127-AM)
£283.95 £283.95
Subtotal £591.80
VAT £103.57
Total £695.37

id agree with all of this minus the mobo as you have stated it can take a fullsize mobo... in that case...

Asus A8R32-MVP Deluxe Crossfire (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-131-AS)
The A8R32-MVP Deluxe supports dual PCI Express x16 slots running at full speed to liberate graphics cards through ATI’s™ CrossFire™ Xpress 3200. Additionally AI Life Series features such as Precision Tweaker, AI *** and PEG Link etc. are also inherited. For easy overclocking, the board comes with Q-Fan2 and Stack Cool2 to ensure quiet yet efficient cooling. With exclusive innovative designs that bring out the real potential of the CrossFire™ Xpress 3200 chipset, gamers can experience faster graphics performance and higher video quality today, and ready for video technology advancements of tomorrow.

- ATI RD580 Northbridge
- Dual PCIe x 16 Graphics
- High-Speed Graphics Platform
- Independent Voltage Adjustment by the Northbridge
- Quiet and Peaceful Operation
- Dual Gigabit LAN
- Stack Cool 2

Previously sold for £109.95 +VAT

Full Specification

Price: £99.95 (£117.44 Including VAT at 17.5%)

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 17:59

Aren't crossfire boards currently very buggy and ridden with issues?

A Crossfire makes more sense as I'd have ATi cards, but what about overclocking and stability?

Monstermunch · 11 Apr 2006 at 18:27

LadFromWales85 said:
Aren't crossfire boards currently very buggy and ridden with issues?

A Crossfire makes more sense as I'd have ATi cards, but what about overclocking and stability?

Yes they are, AVOID if possible, try something that actually works properly like the DFI nF4 Ultra-D or the MSI Neo4, both excellent nforce4 mobo's.

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 18:42

Right then, so...

-DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D Motherboard. Is this the best board to get. As I'm stingey with money, I'd rather buy a lesser processor, and overclock it.

The 4400+ seems expensive for what it is. If I were to get a 3800+, are the chances that it would overclock to 4400+ speeds high. I know it has a smaller cache, but will I notice this playing games with a reasonably high end graphics card?

X1800 XT looks like a good choice, but how much slower is it than a X1900XT, and is it a big jump from an AGP 6800GT.

Tagen PSU seems the way to go, I definately won't skimp on the PSU. I currently have an Enermax 350W which has served me very well

ACESHIGH · 11 Apr 2006 at 19:29

LadFromWales85 said:
Right then, so...

-DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D Motherboard. Is this the best board to get. As I'm stingey with money, I'd rather buy a lesser processor, and overclock it.

The 4400+ seems expensive for what it is. If I were to get a 3800+, are the chances that it would overclock to 4400+ speeds high. I know it has a smaller cache, but will I notice this playing games with a reasonably high end graphics card?

X1800 XT looks like a good choice, but how much slower is it than a X1900XT, and is it a big jump from an AGP 6800GT.

Tagen PSU seems the way to go, I definately won't skimp on the PSU. I currently have an Enermax 350W which has served me very well

DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D Motherboard - great overclockers board.

THe X2 4400+ is a very good clocker too so it would always be the quicker CPU. Also the topend GPU's are generally CPU limited, so get the quickest CPU you can.

The X1800XT 512MB is about 10% slower than a X1900XT if i recall correctly.
This card would perform more than double the 6800GT.

Monstermunch · 11 Apr 2006 at 19:34

LadFromWales85 said:
DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D Motherboard. Is this the best board to get. As I'm stingey with money, I'd rather buy a lesser processor, and overclock it.

The 4400+ seems expensive for what it is. If I were to get a 3800+, are the chances that it would overclock to 4400+ speeds high. I know it has a smaller cache, but will I notice this playing games with a reasonably high end graphics card?

You can do that or look at the Opteron 165 as an option, sort of between the two prices and has 1mb l2 cache per core as the 4400+ does. Also the DFI board is probably the best around but if really on a budget the MSI board also clocks very well and is excellent VFM.

LadFromWales85 said:
X1800 XT looks like a good choice, but how much slower is it than a X1900XT, and is it a big jump from an AGP 6800GT.

The X1900xt is a next generation gfx card compared to the x1800xt and speed doesn't really come into it, it has a more advanced chipset, so even if it were slower, it would still run games faster. Try looking at the Powercolour x1900xt which is on this week only, that's the best VFM IMO.

LadFromWales85 said:
Tagen PSU seems the way to go, I definately won't skimp on the PSU. I currently have an Enermax 350W which has served me very well

Tagan are excellent but i've noticed that for some unknown reason OcUK have recently upped the price by £10 for the 530w so I would look at the Enermax 500w Modular, or if on a budget the Hiper 580w modular.

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 20:01

I think I'd rather pay the £10 premium for a Tagen, heard lots of good things about them

So, the spec is as follows (so far)

DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D £93.94
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 3800+ £199.69
PowerColor ATI Radeon X1800 XT 512MB £229.07
Tagan TG530-U15 530W £82.19
Total Cost £604.89

If I go for a PowerColor ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB
Total Cost £681.26

If I go for a AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ as well
Total Cost £815.21

So we're looking at an extra £200 on top of the base cost for a more 'today' processor and gfx card. Will there a huge difference between the base system and the 'today' system at stock? what about if the base system were overclocked, could it come close to the 'today' system?

If I do spend that much money, I won't wanna look at my credit card bill for a while! Tempted though...

Monstermunch · 11 Apr 2006 at 21:45

This would be best IMO if you're open to the clocking idea, this chip should be able to reach 2.6 ~ 2.8ghz with that cooler and it's better than the standard X2 chips.

FG-000-AR Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940) (FG-000-AR)
£15.95 £15.95
CP-148-AM AMD Opteron UP 170 Dual Core San Diego 2.0GHz 2MB Cache (Socket 939) - Retail (CP-148-AM)
£274.95 £274.95
MB-014-DF DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-014-DF)
£79.95 £79.95
GX-060-PC PowerColor ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-060-PC)
£259.95 £259.95
CA-008-TG Tagan TG530-U15 530W ATX2.01 Easycon SLi Compliant Modular Silent PSU (CA-008-TG)
£69.95 £69.95
Subtotal £700.75
VAT £122.64
Total £823.39

or this one:

FG-000-AR Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940) (FG-000-AR)
£15.95 £15.95
MB-014-DF DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D (Socket 939) PCI-Express Motherboard (MB-014-DF)
£79.95 £79.95
GX-060-PC PowerColor ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB GDDR3 AVIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (PCI-Express) - Retail (GX-060-PC)
£259.95 £259.95
CA-008-TG Tagan TG530-U15 530W ATX2.01 Easycon SLi Compliant Modular Silent PSU (CA-008-TG)
£69.95 £69.95
CP-127-AM AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4400+ (Socket 939) - Retail (ADA4400CDBOX) (CP-127-AM)
£283.95 £283.95
Subtotal £709.75
VAT £124.21
Total £833.96

IMO the first is better, the Opteron is definitely the better processor and will reach much higher speeds than the 4400+ X2.

locutus12 · 11 Apr 2006 at 22:05

as your 6800GT is a good card still, and you said you dont want to spend much on a new card, have you considered keeping it? use an Asrock dual SATA2 939 motherboard and you will be able to do just that. it has PCI-E and AGP as well as support for the newer socket AMD cpu format known as AM2 and DDR2 (via an expansion card which youl buy at a later date for about £18)

as for overclocking... its not the greatest board but its not bad at all, currently got 274 fsb on an AMD a3000+ running at 2.5Ghz up from 1.8ghz stock. performance wise, in bench marks it keeps up with the DFI lan party board and even beats it in certain areas.

LadFromWales · 11 Apr 2006 at 22:24

Yes, the first system is definately better. The 170 has 1MB cache per core, while the 4400+ has 512K per core isnt it? The Opty is totally unlocked though isn't it?

Ive just checked my case, the motherboard side, from where the motherboard sits, is about as deep as the long side of a compact disc case. Would this be a problem for the AC Freezer 64 Pro?

locutus12:- I've heard those boards have a few niggles, and that they aren't as fast as native pci-x boards. If I were to upgrade to M2 and DDR2 in future, a new motherboard wouldn't cost too much, but I doubt I'd be doing that for a long time. I've had my 32bit Barton system for 3 years now, and I'd hope a new system would last just as long before needing upgrading! On that topic, is there anything part of M2 that is worth holding back my upgrade for? As I can't really afford to upgrade again when M2 is out.

Monstermunch:- Am I missing anything that I'll need as well? cables and such? With all that kit you've suggested me, I'm not gonna be wanting to upgrade a few months down the road am I? My Barton system does me fine really, its just that feeling you get, that you need to upgrade, because it's all so old!

Thanks for all your help so far everyone, well technically your helping me spend money, but at the same time your helping me not choose the wrong kit!

Traducer · 11 Apr 2006 at 23:13

The 4400 has 1Mb cache per core, the 3800 has 512Kb per core.
I am all for the 3800 to be honest, especially if on a budget.

Monstermunch · 11 Apr 2006 at 23:43

LadFromWales85 said:
Yes, the first system is definately better. The 170 has 1MB cache per core, while the 4400+ has 512K per core isnt it? The Opty is totally unlocked though isn't it?

All dual core opterons have 1mb L2 cache per core - they are basically FX60 cores originally designed for use in servers. They run cooler and use less power than standard chips and hence tend to be a little more stable and great for clocking. Unfortunately the multipliers ARE locked.

As for the X2 chips: The 3800, 4200, 4600 all have 512k L2 cache and the 4400 & 4800 have 1mb L2 cache per core. Multi's ARE also locked.

LadFromWales85 said:
Ive just checked my case, the motherboard side, from where the motherboard sits, is about as deep as the long side of a compact disc case. Would this be a problem for the AC Freezer 64 Pro?

I don't think you'll have a problem, but check the dimensions on the website with your case measurements to be sure.

LadFromWales85 said:
locutus12:- I've heard those boards have a few niggles, and that they aren't as fast as native pci-x boards. If I were to upgrade to M2 and DDR2 in future, a new motherboard wouldn't cost too much, but I doubt I'd be doing that for a long time. I've had my 32bit Barton system for 3 years now, and I'd hope a new system would last just as long before needing upgrading! On that topic, is there anything part of M2 that is worth holding back my upgrade for? As I can't really afford to upgrade again when M2 is out.

IMO the DFI is far superior, just look at how many people have them running at 280mhz HT

LadFromWales85 said:
Monstermunch:- Am I missing anything that I'll need as well? cables and such? With all that kit you've suggested me, I'm not gonna be wanting to upgrade a few months down the road am I? My Barton system does me fine really, its just that feeling you get, that you need to upgrade, because it's all so old!

I know how you feel, i'm in the same situation and just waiting for some cash to finance my new build. I will be using the Opteron and the DFI plus an X1900xt when I everntually get the cash.

This build I would guess will last you for 3-4 years for the main rig but you will probably have to upgrade the gfx card every 12 months or so to keep it in shape and cope with current games.

LadFromWales85 said:
Thanks for all your help so far everyone, well technically your helping me spend money, but at the same time your helping me not choose the wrong kit!

Hey, that's what we're here for..... :cool:

locutus12 · 12 Apr 2006 at 02:09

LadFromWales85 said:
locutus12:- I've heard those boards have a few niggles, and that they aren't as fast as native pci-x boards. kit!

the ULI chipset used on this board was the first in the world to allow for PCI-E and AGP without a performance drop. ULI made such a name for themselves off it since September that Nvidia bought them up in December. I also happen to use this board and 9.8K with an X1800XT in 3Dmark05 isnt exactly under performing, neither is the fact that my venice 3000 CPU benches to just over the same performance as an opty 150 now that ive clocked it...

the only place you hear about niggles are from people trying to justify the huge ammount they paid for a willy waving board when they know full well certain asrock models perform on par with them

p.s., abit of info / trivia for you... its PCI-E not PCI-X

PCI-X is an old format found on server boards and isnt used for graphics cards, basically means PCI - extended. lots of online stores call PCI-E PCI-X purely because they hire idiots and arnt very bright overall, thankfully OCUK isnt one of them

LadFromWales · 12 Apr 2006 at 03:16

"its PCI-E not PCI-X"

I'll call it whatever I want, until I have it

I don't put enough thought into what its called, so I just type whatever comes to mind...

MM: Hadn't been paying attention to your sig, your spec isn't all that much different from mine at the moment

Except I have a newer graphics card.

From all the information I've got from this thread, I think I've whittled it down to the following

DFI LanParty UT NF4 Ultra-D
X2 3800+ or Opteron 170
ATi X1800XT or X1900XT
Tagen Modular 530w

Not fully decided on cpu and gfx yet...I can afford the more expensive of the two, but whether its worth it or not is another thing.

I can prolly get £250 for my cpu/mobo/gfx from a mate, which should help make the decision a lot